What is meant by $fracpartial xpartial yfracpartial ypartial zfracpartial zpartial x=-1$ ? How to interpret it?understanding $fracpartial xpartial yfracpartial ypartial zfracpartial zpartial x=-1$Converting $left(fracpartial fleft(x,yright)partial xright)^2+left(fracpartial fleft(x,yright)partial yright)^2 $ to PolarSolving for a Partial Derivative with Cramer's RuleFinding $fracpartial gleft(x,x+yright)partial x$?Why can you mix Partial Derivatives with Ordinary Derivatives in the Chain Rule?Verify the identity: $(1-x^2)dfracpartial^2 Phipartial x^2-2xdfracpartialPhipartial x+hdfracpartial^2partial h^2(hPhi)=0$Calculate $fracpartialpartial x_k(frac 1x-y)$ and $fracpartial^2partial x_j partial x_k(frac 1x-y)$?What is the difference between $fracmathrmdmathrmdx$ and $fracpartialpartial x$?Given that $ r^2 = x^2 + y^2$, Compute $fracpartial ^2rpartial y partial x $find partial derivativesExponential of two different derivatives

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What is meant by $fracpartial xpartial yfracpartial ypartial zfracpartial zpartial x=-1$ ? How to interpret it?


understanding $fracpartial xpartial yfracpartial ypartial zfracpartial zpartial x=-1$Converting $left(fracpartial fleft(x,yright)partial xright)^2+left(fracpartial fleft(x,yright)partial yright)^2 $ to PolarSolving for a Partial Derivative with Cramer's RuleFinding $fracpartial gleft(x,x+yright)partial x$?Why can you mix Partial Derivatives with Ordinary Derivatives in the Chain Rule?Verify the identity: $(1-x^2)dfracpartial^2 Phipartial x^2-2xdfracpartialPhipartial x+hdfracpartial^2partial h^2(hPhi)=0$Calculate $fracpartialpartial x_k(frac 1x-y)$ and $fracpartial^2partial x_j partial x_k(frac 1x-y)$?What is the difference between $fracmathrmdmathrmdx$ and $fracpartialpartial x$?Given that $ r^2 = x^2 + y^2$, Compute $fracpartial ^2rpartial y partial x $find partial derivativesExponential of two different derivatives













10












$begingroup$


Let $F(x,y,z)=0$. So $x,y,z$ are defined implicitly in function of the other variable, i.e. $x=x(y,z)$, $y=y(x,z)$ and $z=z(x,y)$. Now $$dx=fracpartial xpartial ydy+fracpartial xpartial zdz=fracpartial xpartial yleft(fracpartial ypartial xdx+fracpartial ypartial zdzright)+fracpartial xpartial zdz$$
and thus $$left(fracpartial xpartial yfracpartial ypartial x-1right)dx+left(fracpartial xpartial z+fracpartial xpartial yfracpartial ypartial zright)dz=0.$$
Since $dx$ and $dy$ are linearly independent, we finally get



beginalign*
fracpartial xpartial yfracpartial ypartial x&=1 tag1\
fracpartial xpartial yfracpartial ypartial z&=-fracpartial xpartial ztag2
endalign*



Equation $(1)$ is natural, but equation $(2)$ should be $fracpartial xpartial yfracpartial ypartial z=fracpartial xpartial zfracpartial ypartial y=fracpartial xpartial z,$ no ? So what's the matter here ? I know it's correct, but what does it mean exactly such a contradiction ? Because at the end I get
$$fracpartial xpartial yfracpartial ypartial zfracpartial zpartial x=-fracpartial xpartial zfracpartial zpartial x=-1$$
instead of $1$ (what should be expected). What is the mystery behind ? :)










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$







  • 6




    $begingroup$
    Remember, $fracpartial xpartial y$ is not a fraction! There are some instances where it conveniently behaves like a fraction, but it is not a fraction and there are instances like this one where assuming it should have behaved like a fraction leads to contradictions.
    $endgroup$
    – JMoravitz
    Aug 10 '18 at 21:48










  • $begingroup$
    @JMoravitz: Could you tell a condition for that $fracpartial xpartial y$ behaves as a fraction ?
    $endgroup$
    – user380364
    Aug 11 '18 at 9:04










  • $begingroup$
    Related: math.stackexchange.com/questions/942457/…
    $endgroup$
    – Hans Lundmark
    Aug 11 '18 at 9:40















10












$begingroup$


Let $F(x,y,z)=0$. So $x,y,z$ are defined implicitly in function of the other variable, i.e. $x=x(y,z)$, $y=y(x,z)$ and $z=z(x,y)$. Now $$dx=fracpartial xpartial ydy+fracpartial xpartial zdz=fracpartial xpartial yleft(fracpartial ypartial xdx+fracpartial ypartial zdzright)+fracpartial xpartial zdz$$
and thus $$left(fracpartial xpartial yfracpartial ypartial x-1right)dx+left(fracpartial xpartial z+fracpartial xpartial yfracpartial ypartial zright)dz=0.$$
Since $dx$ and $dy$ are linearly independent, we finally get



beginalign*
fracpartial xpartial yfracpartial ypartial x&=1 tag1\
fracpartial xpartial yfracpartial ypartial z&=-fracpartial xpartial ztag2
endalign*



Equation $(1)$ is natural, but equation $(2)$ should be $fracpartial xpartial yfracpartial ypartial z=fracpartial xpartial zfracpartial ypartial y=fracpartial xpartial z,$ no ? So what's the matter here ? I know it's correct, but what does it mean exactly such a contradiction ? Because at the end I get
$$fracpartial xpartial yfracpartial ypartial zfracpartial zpartial x=-fracpartial xpartial zfracpartial zpartial x=-1$$
instead of $1$ (what should be expected). What is the mystery behind ? :)










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$







  • 6




    $begingroup$
    Remember, $fracpartial xpartial y$ is not a fraction! There are some instances where it conveniently behaves like a fraction, but it is not a fraction and there are instances like this one where assuming it should have behaved like a fraction leads to contradictions.
    $endgroup$
    – JMoravitz
    Aug 10 '18 at 21:48










  • $begingroup$
    @JMoravitz: Could you tell a condition for that $fracpartial xpartial y$ behaves as a fraction ?
    $endgroup$
    – user380364
    Aug 11 '18 at 9:04










  • $begingroup$
    Related: math.stackexchange.com/questions/942457/…
    $endgroup$
    – Hans Lundmark
    Aug 11 '18 at 9:40













10












10








10


5



$begingroup$


Let $F(x,y,z)=0$. So $x,y,z$ are defined implicitly in function of the other variable, i.e. $x=x(y,z)$, $y=y(x,z)$ and $z=z(x,y)$. Now $$dx=fracpartial xpartial ydy+fracpartial xpartial zdz=fracpartial xpartial yleft(fracpartial ypartial xdx+fracpartial ypartial zdzright)+fracpartial xpartial zdz$$
and thus $$left(fracpartial xpartial yfracpartial ypartial x-1right)dx+left(fracpartial xpartial z+fracpartial xpartial yfracpartial ypartial zright)dz=0.$$
Since $dx$ and $dy$ are linearly independent, we finally get



beginalign*
fracpartial xpartial yfracpartial ypartial x&=1 tag1\
fracpartial xpartial yfracpartial ypartial z&=-fracpartial xpartial ztag2
endalign*



Equation $(1)$ is natural, but equation $(2)$ should be $fracpartial xpartial yfracpartial ypartial z=fracpartial xpartial zfracpartial ypartial y=fracpartial xpartial z,$ no ? So what's the matter here ? I know it's correct, but what does it mean exactly such a contradiction ? Because at the end I get
$$fracpartial xpartial yfracpartial ypartial zfracpartial zpartial x=-fracpartial xpartial zfracpartial zpartial x=-1$$
instead of $1$ (what should be expected). What is the mystery behind ? :)










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




Let $F(x,y,z)=0$. So $x,y,z$ are defined implicitly in function of the other variable, i.e. $x=x(y,z)$, $y=y(x,z)$ and $z=z(x,y)$. Now $$dx=fracpartial xpartial ydy+fracpartial xpartial zdz=fracpartial xpartial yleft(fracpartial ypartial xdx+fracpartial ypartial zdzright)+fracpartial xpartial zdz$$
and thus $$left(fracpartial xpartial yfracpartial ypartial x-1right)dx+left(fracpartial xpartial z+fracpartial xpartial yfracpartial ypartial zright)dz=0.$$
Since $dx$ and $dy$ are linearly independent, we finally get



beginalign*
fracpartial xpartial yfracpartial ypartial x&=1 tag1\
fracpartial xpartial yfracpartial ypartial z&=-fracpartial xpartial ztag2
endalign*



Equation $(1)$ is natural, but equation $(2)$ should be $fracpartial xpartial yfracpartial ypartial z=fracpartial xpartial zfracpartial ypartial y=fracpartial xpartial z,$ no ? So what's the matter here ? I know it's correct, but what does it mean exactly such a contradiction ? Because at the end I get
$$fracpartial xpartial yfracpartial ypartial zfracpartial zpartial x=-fracpartial xpartial zfracpartial zpartial x=-1$$
instead of $1$ (what should be expected). What is the mystery behind ? :)







real-analysis derivatives partial-derivative






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited Aug 10 '18 at 22:06









Math Lover

14.1k31437




14.1k31437










asked Aug 10 '18 at 21:46









user380364user380364

986314




986314







  • 6




    $begingroup$
    Remember, $fracpartial xpartial y$ is not a fraction! There are some instances where it conveniently behaves like a fraction, but it is not a fraction and there are instances like this one where assuming it should have behaved like a fraction leads to contradictions.
    $endgroup$
    – JMoravitz
    Aug 10 '18 at 21:48










  • $begingroup$
    @JMoravitz: Could you tell a condition for that $fracpartial xpartial y$ behaves as a fraction ?
    $endgroup$
    – user380364
    Aug 11 '18 at 9:04










  • $begingroup$
    Related: math.stackexchange.com/questions/942457/…
    $endgroup$
    – Hans Lundmark
    Aug 11 '18 at 9:40












  • 6




    $begingroup$
    Remember, $fracpartial xpartial y$ is not a fraction! There are some instances where it conveniently behaves like a fraction, but it is not a fraction and there are instances like this one where assuming it should have behaved like a fraction leads to contradictions.
    $endgroup$
    – JMoravitz
    Aug 10 '18 at 21:48










  • $begingroup$
    @JMoravitz: Could you tell a condition for that $fracpartial xpartial y$ behaves as a fraction ?
    $endgroup$
    – user380364
    Aug 11 '18 at 9:04










  • $begingroup$
    Related: math.stackexchange.com/questions/942457/…
    $endgroup$
    – Hans Lundmark
    Aug 11 '18 at 9:40







6




6




$begingroup$
Remember, $fracpartial xpartial y$ is not a fraction! There are some instances where it conveniently behaves like a fraction, but it is not a fraction and there are instances like this one where assuming it should have behaved like a fraction leads to contradictions.
$endgroup$
– JMoravitz
Aug 10 '18 at 21:48




$begingroup$
Remember, $fracpartial xpartial y$ is not a fraction! There are some instances where it conveniently behaves like a fraction, but it is not a fraction and there are instances like this one where assuming it should have behaved like a fraction leads to contradictions.
$endgroup$
– JMoravitz
Aug 10 '18 at 21:48












$begingroup$
@JMoravitz: Could you tell a condition for that $fracpartial xpartial y$ behaves as a fraction ?
$endgroup$
– user380364
Aug 11 '18 at 9:04




$begingroup$
@JMoravitz: Could you tell a condition for that $fracpartial xpartial y$ behaves as a fraction ?
$endgroup$
– user380364
Aug 11 '18 at 9:04












$begingroup$
Related: math.stackexchange.com/questions/942457/…
$endgroup$
– Hans Lundmark
Aug 11 '18 at 9:40




$begingroup$
Related: math.stackexchange.com/questions/942457/…
$endgroup$
– Hans Lundmark
Aug 11 '18 at 9:40










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















5












$begingroup$

Here is a more symmetric explanation of this computation that hopefully makes the result less surprising. Since $F$ is constant on our surface, we have $$0=dF=F_xdx+F_ydy+F_zdz.$$
Now, how does this relate to partial derivative like $fracpartial xpartial y$? That partial derivative is just the coefficient of $dy$ when we write $dx$ as a linear combination of $dy$ and $dz$. Solving the equation above, we have $$dx=-fracF_yF_xdy-fracF_zF_xdx.$$ So, $fracpartial xpartial y=-fracF_yF_x$. Intuitively, this makes sense: if $z$ is held constant and we vary $y$ in one direction, we need to vary $x$ in the direction that makes $F$ move in the opposite direction, to keep $F$ equal to $0$. So since $F_x$ and $F_y$ represent the directions that $F$ varies when we change $x$ and $y$, the minus sign comes from needing the changes in $F$ from $x$ and $y$ to cancel out.



But now we see immediately where your surprising minus signs are coming from. If we compute $fracpartial xpartial yfracpartial ypartial z$ we would get $$left(-fracF_yF_xright)left(-fracF_zF_yright)=fracF_zF_x.$$ Since we lost our minus sign, this is the negative of $fracpartial xpartial z=-fracF_zF_x$. Using the same intuition as before, we are multiplying the change in $x$ needed to counteract a change in $y$ (and keep $F$ constant) by the change in $y$ needed to counteract a change in $z$. The two "counteracts" cancel each other out, and we end up with the change in $x$ needed to duplicate a change in $z$, rather than to counteract the change in $z$.



Ultimately, the lesson here is that derivatives are not fractions, especially not partial derivatives. Ordinary derivatives often behave like fractions (because they are limits of fractions) via the chain rule. Partial derivatives do not (and the chain rule for them does not look like just multiplying fractions!), because as explained in J.G.'s answer they are extremely sensitive to what other variables are being held constant. In particular, in your partial derivatives $fracpartial xpartial y$ and $fracpartial ypartial z$, $z$ is being held constant for the first one while $x$ is being held constant for the second one. So these derivatives are being computed under different "background assumptions", and it's not particularly reasonable to expect them to behave like fractions the way single-variable derivatives do.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$




















    4












    $begingroup$

    Partial derivatives are only defined once you specify what's held constant. Partial derivatives' product only allows chain-rule style cancellations if they're defined with the same thing(s) assumed constant.
    For example, if $x, y, z$ were non-constant differentiable functions of $w$, you'd have $$left(fracpartial xpartial yright)_w left(fracpartial ypartial zright)_w left(fracpartial zpartial xright)_w = +1,$$ where the subscript indicates the constant-$w$ condition.



    The result you're trying to understand is radically different; it's $$left(fracpartial xpartial yright)_z left(fracpartial ypartial zright)_x left(fracpartial zpartial xright)_y=-1,$$ with a condition $f(x, y, z)=0$ existing and no fourth variable involved.



    As a simple example of why the choice of what to hold constant matters, compare $2$-dimensional Cartesian and polar coordinates. Holding $y$ constant, $x^2=r^2-y^2$ implies $2xleft(fracpartial xpartial rright)_y=2r$ so $left(fracpartial xpartial rright)_y=fracrx$; holding $theta$ constant, $x=rcostheta$ implies $left(fracpartial xpartial rright)_theta=costheta=fracxr$.






    share|cite|improve this answer











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      2 Answers
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      2 Answers
      2






      active

      oldest

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      active

      oldest

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      active

      oldest

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      5












      $begingroup$

      Here is a more symmetric explanation of this computation that hopefully makes the result less surprising. Since $F$ is constant on our surface, we have $$0=dF=F_xdx+F_ydy+F_zdz.$$
      Now, how does this relate to partial derivative like $fracpartial xpartial y$? That partial derivative is just the coefficient of $dy$ when we write $dx$ as a linear combination of $dy$ and $dz$. Solving the equation above, we have $$dx=-fracF_yF_xdy-fracF_zF_xdx.$$ So, $fracpartial xpartial y=-fracF_yF_x$. Intuitively, this makes sense: if $z$ is held constant and we vary $y$ in one direction, we need to vary $x$ in the direction that makes $F$ move in the opposite direction, to keep $F$ equal to $0$. So since $F_x$ and $F_y$ represent the directions that $F$ varies when we change $x$ and $y$, the minus sign comes from needing the changes in $F$ from $x$ and $y$ to cancel out.



      But now we see immediately where your surprising minus signs are coming from. If we compute $fracpartial xpartial yfracpartial ypartial z$ we would get $$left(-fracF_yF_xright)left(-fracF_zF_yright)=fracF_zF_x.$$ Since we lost our minus sign, this is the negative of $fracpartial xpartial z=-fracF_zF_x$. Using the same intuition as before, we are multiplying the change in $x$ needed to counteract a change in $y$ (and keep $F$ constant) by the change in $y$ needed to counteract a change in $z$. The two "counteracts" cancel each other out, and we end up with the change in $x$ needed to duplicate a change in $z$, rather than to counteract the change in $z$.



      Ultimately, the lesson here is that derivatives are not fractions, especially not partial derivatives. Ordinary derivatives often behave like fractions (because they are limits of fractions) via the chain rule. Partial derivatives do not (and the chain rule for them does not look like just multiplying fractions!), because as explained in J.G.'s answer they are extremely sensitive to what other variables are being held constant. In particular, in your partial derivatives $fracpartial xpartial y$ and $fracpartial ypartial z$, $z$ is being held constant for the first one while $x$ is being held constant for the second one. So these derivatives are being computed under different "background assumptions", and it's not particularly reasonable to expect them to behave like fractions the way single-variable derivatives do.






      share|cite|improve this answer











      $endgroup$

















        5












        $begingroup$

        Here is a more symmetric explanation of this computation that hopefully makes the result less surprising. Since $F$ is constant on our surface, we have $$0=dF=F_xdx+F_ydy+F_zdz.$$
        Now, how does this relate to partial derivative like $fracpartial xpartial y$? That partial derivative is just the coefficient of $dy$ when we write $dx$ as a linear combination of $dy$ and $dz$. Solving the equation above, we have $$dx=-fracF_yF_xdy-fracF_zF_xdx.$$ So, $fracpartial xpartial y=-fracF_yF_x$. Intuitively, this makes sense: if $z$ is held constant and we vary $y$ in one direction, we need to vary $x$ in the direction that makes $F$ move in the opposite direction, to keep $F$ equal to $0$. So since $F_x$ and $F_y$ represent the directions that $F$ varies when we change $x$ and $y$, the minus sign comes from needing the changes in $F$ from $x$ and $y$ to cancel out.



        But now we see immediately where your surprising minus signs are coming from. If we compute $fracpartial xpartial yfracpartial ypartial z$ we would get $$left(-fracF_yF_xright)left(-fracF_zF_yright)=fracF_zF_x.$$ Since we lost our minus sign, this is the negative of $fracpartial xpartial z=-fracF_zF_x$. Using the same intuition as before, we are multiplying the change in $x$ needed to counteract a change in $y$ (and keep $F$ constant) by the change in $y$ needed to counteract a change in $z$. The two "counteracts" cancel each other out, and we end up with the change in $x$ needed to duplicate a change in $z$, rather than to counteract the change in $z$.



        Ultimately, the lesson here is that derivatives are not fractions, especially not partial derivatives. Ordinary derivatives often behave like fractions (because they are limits of fractions) via the chain rule. Partial derivatives do not (and the chain rule for them does not look like just multiplying fractions!), because as explained in J.G.'s answer they are extremely sensitive to what other variables are being held constant. In particular, in your partial derivatives $fracpartial xpartial y$ and $fracpartial ypartial z$, $z$ is being held constant for the first one while $x$ is being held constant for the second one. So these derivatives are being computed under different "background assumptions", and it's not particularly reasonable to expect them to behave like fractions the way single-variable derivatives do.






        share|cite|improve this answer











        $endgroup$















          5












          5








          5





          $begingroup$

          Here is a more symmetric explanation of this computation that hopefully makes the result less surprising. Since $F$ is constant on our surface, we have $$0=dF=F_xdx+F_ydy+F_zdz.$$
          Now, how does this relate to partial derivative like $fracpartial xpartial y$? That partial derivative is just the coefficient of $dy$ when we write $dx$ as a linear combination of $dy$ and $dz$. Solving the equation above, we have $$dx=-fracF_yF_xdy-fracF_zF_xdx.$$ So, $fracpartial xpartial y=-fracF_yF_x$. Intuitively, this makes sense: if $z$ is held constant and we vary $y$ in one direction, we need to vary $x$ in the direction that makes $F$ move in the opposite direction, to keep $F$ equal to $0$. So since $F_x$ and $F_y$ represent the directions that $F$ varies when we change $x$ and $y$, the minus sign comes from needing the changes in $F$ from $x$ and $y$ to cancel out.



          But now we see immediately where your surprising minus signs are coming from. If we compute $fracpartial xpartial yfracpartial ypartial z$ we would get $$left(-fracF_yF_xright)left(-fracF_zF_yright)=fracF_zF_x.$$ Since we lost our minus sign, this is the negative of $fracpartial xpartial z=-fracF_zF_x$. Using the same intuition as before, we are multiplying the change in $x$ needed to counteract a change in $y$ (and keep $F$ constant) by the change in $y$ needed to counteract a change in $z$. The two "counteracts" cancel each other out, and we end up with the change in $x$ needed to duplicate a change in $z$, rather than to counteract the change in $z$.



          Ultimately, the lesson here is that derivatives are not fractions, especially not partial derivatives. Ordinary derivatives often behave like fractions (because they are limits of fractions) via the chain rule. Partial derivatives do not (and the chain rule for them does not look like just multiplying fractions!), because as explained in J.G.'s answer they are extremely sensitive to what other variables are being held constant. In particular, in your partial derivatives $fracpartial xpartial y$ and $fracpartial ypartial z$, $z$ is being held constant for the first one while $x$ is being held constant for the second one. So these derivatives are being computed under different "background assumptions", and it's not particularly reasonable to expect them to behave like fractions the way single-variable derivatives do.






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$



          Here is a more symmetric explanation of this computation that hopefully makes the result less surprising. Since $F$ is constant on our surface, we have $$0=dF=F_xdx+F_ydy+F_zdz.$$
          Now, how does this relate to partial derivative like $fracpartial xpartial y$? That partial derivative is just the coefficient of $dy$ when we write $dx$ as a linear combination of $dy$ and $dz$. Solving the equation above, we have $$dx=-fracF_yF_xdy-fracF_zF_xdx.$$ So, $fracpartial xpartial y=-fracF_yF_x$. Intuitively, this makes sense: if $z$ is held constant and we vary $y$ in one direction, we need to vary $x$ in the direction that makes $F$ move in the opposite direction, to keep $F$ equal to $0$. So since $F_x$ and $F_y$ represent the directions that $F$ varies when we change $x$ and $y$, the minus sign comes from needing the changes in $F$ from $x$ and $y$ to cancel out.



          But now we see immediately where your surprising minus signs are coming from. If we compute $fracpartial xpartial yfracpartial ypartial z$ we would get $$left(-fracF_yF_xright)left(-fracF_zF_yright)=fracF_zF_x.$$ Since we lost our minus sign, this is the negative of $fracpartial xpartial z=-fracF_zF_x$. Using the same intuition as before, we are multiplying the change in $x$ needed to counteract a change in $y$ (and keep $F$ constant) by the change in $y$ needed to counteract a change in $z$. The two "counteracts" cancel each other out, and we end up with the change in $x$ needed to duplicate a change in $z$, rather than to counteract the change in $z$.



          Ultimately, the lesson here is that derivatives are not fractions, especially not partial derivatives. Ordinary derivatives often behave like fractions (because they are limits of fractions) via the chain rule. Partial derivatives do not (and the chain rule for them does not look like just multiplying fractions!), because as explained in J.G.'s answer they are extremely sensitive to what other variables are being held constant. In particular, in your partial derivatives $fracpartial xpartial y$ and $fracpartial ypartial z$, $z$ is being held constant for the first one while $x$ is being held constant for the second one. So these derivatives are being computed under different "background assumptions", and it's not particularly reasonable to expect them to behave like fractions the way single-variable derivatives do.







          share|cite|improve this answer














          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer








          edited Aug 10 '18 at 22:26

























          answered Aug 10 '18 at 22:07









          Eric WofseyEric Wofsey

          192k14218351




          192k14218351





















              4












              $begingroup$

              Partial derivatives are only defined once you specify what's held constant. Partial derivatives' product only allows chain-rule style cancellations if they're defined with the same thing(s) assumed constant.
              For example, if $x, y, z$ were non-constant differentiable functions of $w$, you'd have $$left(fracpartial xpartial yright)_w left(fracpartial ypartial zright)_w left(fracpartial zpartial xright)_w = +1,$$ where the subscript indicates the constant-$w$ condition.



              The result you're trying to understand is radically different; it's $$left(fracpartial xpartial yright)_z left(fracpartial ypartial zright)_x left(fracpartial zpartial xright)_y=-1,$$ with a condition $f(x, y, z)=0$ existing and no fourth variable involved.



              As a simple example of why the choice of what to hold constant matters, compare $2$-dimensional Cartesian and polar coordinates. Holding $y$ constant, $x^2=r^2-y^2$ implies $2xleft(fracpartial xpartial rright)_y=2r$ so $left(fracpartial xpartial rright)_y=fracrx$; holding $theta$ constant, $x=rcostheta$ implies $left(fracpartial xpartial rright)_theta=costheta=fracxr$.






              share|cite|improve this answer











              $endgroup$

















                4












                $begingroup$

                Partial derivatives are only defined once you specify what's held constant. Partial derivatives' product only allows chain-rule style cancellations if they're defined with the same thing(s) assumed constant.
                For example, if $x, y, z$ were non-constant differentiable functions of $w$, you'd have $$left(fracpartial xpartial yright)_w left(fracpartial ypartial zright)_w left(fracpartial zpartial xright)_w = +1,$$ where the subscript indicates the constant-$w$ condition.



                The result you're trying to understand is radically different; it's $$left(fracpartial xpartial yright)_z left(fracpartial ypartial zright)_x left(fracpartial zpartial xright)_y=-1,$$ with a condition $f(x, y, z)=0$ existing and no fourth variable involved.



                As a simple example of why the choice of what to hold constant matters, compare $2$-dimensional Cartesian and polar coordinates. Holding $y$ constant, $x^2=r^2-y^2$ implies $2xleft(fracpartial xpartial rright)_y=2r$ so $left(fracpartial xpartial rright)_y=fracrx$; holding $theta$ constant, $x=rcostheta$ implies $left(fracpartial xpartial rright)_theta=costheta=fracxr$.






                share|cite|improve this answer











                $endgroup$















                  4












                  4








                  4





                  $begingroup$

                  Partial derivatives are only defined once you specify what's held constant. Partial derivatives' product only allows chain-rule style cancellations if they're defined with the same thing(s) assumed constant.
                  For example, if $x, y, z$ were non-constant differentiable functions of $w$, you'd have $$left(fracpartial xpartial yright)_w left(fracpartial ypartial zright)_w left(fracpartial zpartial xright)_w = +1,$$ where the subscript indicates the constant-$w$ condition.



                  The result you're trying to understand is radically different; it's $$left(fracpartial xpartial yright)_z left(fracpartial ypartial zright)_x left(fracpartial zpartial xright)_y=-1,$$ with a condition $f(x, y, z)=0$ existing and no fourth variable involved.



                  As a simple example of why the choice of what to hold constant matters, compare $2$-dimensional Cartesian and polar coordinates. Holding $y$ constant, $x^2=r^2-y^2$ implies $2xleft(fracpartial xpartial rright)_y=2r$ so $left(fracpartial xpartial rright)_y=fracrx$; holding $theta$ constant, $x=rcostheta$ implies $left(fracpartial xpartial rright)_theta=costheta=fracxr$.






                  share|cite|improve this answer











                  $endgroup$



                  Partial derivatives are only defined once you specify what's held constant. Partial derivatives' product only allows chain-rule style cancellations if they're defined with the same thing(s) assumed constant.
                  For example, if $x, y, z$ were non-constant differentiable functions of $w$, you'd have $$left(fracpartial xpartial yright)_w left(fracpartial ypartial zright)_w left(fracpartial zpartial xright)_w = +1,$$ where the subscript indicates the constant-$w$ condition.



                  The result you're trying to understand is radically different; it's $$left(fracpartial xpartial yright)_z left(fracpartial ypartial zright)_x left(fracpartial zpartial xright)_y=-1,$$ with a condition $f(x, y, z)=0$ existing and no fourth variable involved.



                  As a simple example of why the choice of what to hold constant matters, compare $2$-dimensional Cartesian and polar coordinates. Holding $y$ constant, $x^2=r^2-y^2$ implies $2xleft(fracpartial xpartial rright)_y=2r$ so $left(fracpartial xpartial rright)_y=fracrx$; holding $theta$ constant, $x=rcostheta$ implies $left(fracpartial xpartial rright)_theta=costheta=fracxr$.







                  share|cite|improve this answer














                  share|cite|improve this answer



                  share|cite|improve this answer








                  edited Mar 29 at 7:53

























                  answered Aug 10 '18 at 21:57









                  J.G.J.G.

                  32.6k23250




                  32.6k23250



























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