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Probability with n characters



Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Planned maintenance scheduled April 23, 2019 at 23:30 UTC (7:30pm US/Eastern)Separate probabilities from “joint” probabilityProbability Term for something that defies the odds.Probability of Appearance of a character in output.Exponential and Uniform distribution with conditional probabilityShow how the probability that an 8 character password contains exactly 1 OR 2 integers is .630Probability of printing charactersProbabilistic Game TheoryJustin is setting a password on his computer. He is told that his password must contain at least 4 but no more than 6 characters.Selection Probabilitywhat is the probability that a sequence is increasing?










0












$begingroup$


This is taken from a stochastic processes text.



A printing machine capable of printing any of n characters $a_1, ... , a_n$ is operated by electrical impulses, each character, in theory, being produced by a different impulse. Suppose the machine has probability $p$ of producing the character corresponding to the impulse received, independent of past behavior. If it prints the wrong character, the probabilities that any of the $(n-1)$ other characters will appear are equal.



The question is: Suppose that one of the $n$ impulses is chosen at random and fed into the machine twice, and the character $a_i$ is printed both times. What is the probability that the impulse chosen is the one designed to produce $a_i$?



I thought that the answer can be found by supposing two characters are $a_i$ with probability $p$ and the remaining $(n-2)$ characters are not each with probability $(1-p)$.



I think this would be $$nchoose 2 p^2(1-p)^n-2$$



The actual answer is $$p^2[p^2 + frac(1-p)^2n-1]^-1$$



Looking at this, it seems it might be a conditional probability, but I do not understand what A and B would be in $P(A|B)$.



I also thought that you need to consider at least two characters = $a_i$ as opposed to exactly two, but I do not see how this would lead to the actual answer.



I think there is something about the problem and the question that I do not understand. Please clarify, and please show or give hints as to obtain the actual answer.










share|cite|improve this question









$endgroup$
















    0












    $begingroup$


    This is taken from a stochastic processes text.



    A printing machine capable of printing any of n characters $a_1, ... , a_n$ is operated by electrical impulses, each character, in theory, being produced by a different impulse. Suppose the machine has probability $p$ of producing the character corresponding to the impulse received, independent of past behavior. If it prints the wrong character, the probabilities that any of the $(n-1)$ other characters will appear are equal.



    The question is: Suppose that one of the $n$ impulses is chosen at random and fed into the machine twice, and the character $a_i$ is printed both times. What is the probability that the impulse chosen is the one designed to produce $a_i$?



    I thought that the answer can be found by supposing two characters are $a_i$ with probability $p$ and the remaining $(n-2)$ characters are not each with probability $(1-p)$.



    I think this would be $$nchoose 2 p^2(1-p)^n-2$$



    The actual answer is $$p^2[p^2 + frac(1-p)^2n-1]^-1$$



    Looking at this, it seems it might be a conditional probability, but I do not understand what A and B would be in $P(A|B)$.



    I also thought that you need to consider at least two characters = $a_i$ as opposed to exactly two, but I do not see how this would lead to the actual answer.



    I think there is something about the problem and the question that I do not understand. Please clarify, and please show or give hints as to obtain the actual answer.










    share|cite|improve this question









    $endgroup$














      0












      0








      0


      0



      $begingroup$


      This is taken from a stochastic processes text.



      A printing machine capable of printing any of n characters $a_1, ... , a_n$ is operated by electrical impulses, each character, in theory, being produced by a different impulse. Suppose the machine has probability $p$ of producing the character corresponding to the impulse received, independent of past behavior. If it prints the wrong character, the probabilities that any of the $(n-1)$ other characters will appear are equal.



      The question is: Suppose that one of the $n$ impulses is chosen at random and fed into the machine twice, and the character $a_i$ is printed both times. What is the probability that the impulse chosen is the one designed to produce $a_i$?



      I thought that the answer can be found by supposing two characters are $a_i$ with probability $p$ and the remaining $(n-2)$ characters are not each with probability $(1-p)$.



      I think this would be $$nchoose 2 p^2(1-p)^n-2$$



      The actual answer is $$p^2[p^2 + frac(1-p)^2n-1]^-1$$



      Looking at this, it seems it might be a conditional probability, but I do not understand what A and B would be in $P(A|B)$.



      I also thought that you need to consider at least two characters = $a_i$ as opposed to exactly two, but I do not see how this would lead to the actual answer.



      I think there is something about the problem and the question that I do not understand. Please clarify, and please show or give hints as to obtain the actual answer.










      share|cite|improve this question









      $endgroup$




      This is taken from a stochastic processes text.



      A printing machine capable of printing any of n characters $a_1, ... , a_n$ is operated by electrical impulses, each character, in theory, being produced by a different impulse. Suppose the machine has probability $p$ of producing the character corresponding to the impulse received, independent of past behavior. If it prints the wrong character, the probabilities that any of the $(n-1)$ other characters will appear are equal.



      The question is: Suppose that one of the $n$ impulses is chosen at random and fed into the machine twice, and the character $a_i$ is printed both times. What is the probability that the impulse chosen is the one designed to produce $a_i$?



      I thought that the answer can be found by supposing two characters are $a_i$ with probability $p$ and the remaining $(n-2)$ characters are not each with probability $(1-p)$.



      I think this would be $$nchoose 2 p^2(1-p)^n-2$$



      The actual answer is $$p^2[p^2 + frac(1-p)^2n-1]^-1$$



      Looking at this, it seems it might be a conditional probability, but I do not understand what A and B would be in $P(A|B)$.



      I also thought that you need to consider at least two characters = $a_i$ as opposed to exactly two, but I do not see how this would lead to the actual answer.



      I think there is something about the problem and the question that I do not understand. Please clarify, and please show or give hints as to obtain the actual answer.







      probability






      share|cite|improve this question













      share|cite|improve this question











      share|cite|improve this question




      share|cite|improve this question










      asked Apr 2 at 17:27









      VahanVahan

      8910




      8910




















          1 Answer
          1






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          2












          $begingroup$

          Let $A$ be the event that impulse $i$ is chosen and $B$ the event that the first and the second printed letter is $a_i$.



          Use Bayes theorem to obtain the desired probability.
          $$
          P(A|B) = fracA)P(A)notA)P(notA)
          $$



          Now, $P(A) = 1/n, P(B|A) = p^2, P(B|notA)=((1-p)/(n-1))^2, P(notA)=(n-1)/n.$



          Substituting in the formula, the result is $p^2/(p^2+(1-p)^2/(n-1)).$



          Note that $(1-p)/(n-1)$ is the probability that letter $a_i$ is printed given that impulse other than $i$ is selected.






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$












          • $begingroup$
            In this case is it difficult to find P(A|B) directly using P(AB)/B? Also, I'm unclear on P(B|not A). It seems that P(B intersect not A) would be (1-p)^2 so the result would be (1-p)^2n/(n-1).
            $endgroup$
            – Vahan
            Apr 2 at 21:16










          • $begingroup$
            Try thinking in terms of conditional probabilities as specified in the Bayes formula. These conditionals are simpler to compute as shown above. $P(B|notA) = (1-p)^2/(n-1)^2$ is the probability that letter $a_i$ is printed twice given that impulse other than 𝑖 is selected.
            $endgroup$
            – dnqxt
            Apr 2 at 21:37










          • $begingroup$
            That makes sense intuitively, but I was thinking of $P(B|not A) = P(B not A)/P(not A) = (1-p)^2/((n-1)/n)) = (1-p)^2n/(n-1)$. Why does this approach differ by an extra n?
            $endgroup$
            – Vahan
            Apr 3 at 0:12










          • $begingroup$
            Event $(B|notA)$ consists of two independent events, $(B_1|not A) =$ "$a_i$ is the first letter printed given that impulse $i$ is not selected" and $(B_2|not A)=$ "$a_i$ is the second letter printed given that impulse $i$ is not selected". $Pr(B|not A)=Pr(B_1| not A)Pr(B_2 |not A)$, where $Pr(B_1| not A)=Pr(B_2| not A)= (1-p)/(n-1)$.
            $endgroup$
            – dnqxt
            Apr 3 at 1:23











          • $begingroup$
            Is there any difference in this case between $P(B|not A)$ and $P(B cap not A)$?
            $endgroup$
            – Vahan
            Apr 3 at 19:55












          Your Answer








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          1 Answer
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          1 Answer
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          active

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          active

          oldest

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          2












          $begingroup$

          Let $A$ be the event that impulse $i$ is chosen and $B$ the event that the first and the second printed letter is $a_i$.



          Use Bayes theorem to obtain the desired probability.
          $$
          P(A|B) = fracA)P(A)notA)P(notA)
          $$



          Now, $P(A) = 1/n, P(B|A) = p^2, P(B|notA)=((1-p)/(n-1))^2, P(notA)=(n-1)/n.$



          Substituting in the formula, the result is $p^2/(p^2+(1-p)^2/(n-1)).$



          Note that $(1-p)/(n-1)$ is the probability that letter $a_i$ is printed given that impulse other than $i$ is selected.






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$












          • $begingroup$
            In this case is it difficult to find P(A|B) directly using P(AB)/B? Also, I'm unclear on P(B|not A). It seems that P(B intersect not A) would be (1-p)^2 so the result would be (1-p)^2n/(n-1).
            $endgroup$
            – Vahan
            Apr 2 at 21:16










          • $begingroup$
            Try thinking in terms of conditional probabilities as specified in the Bayes formula. These conditionals are simpler to compute as shown above. $P(B|notA) = (1-p)^2/(n-1)^2$ is the probability that letter $a_i$ is printed twice given that impulse other than 𝑖 is selected.
            $endgroup$
            – dnqxt
            Apr 2 at 21:37










          • $begingroup$
            That makes sense intuitively, but I was thinking of $P(B|not A) = P(B not A)/P(not A) = (1-p)^2/((n-1)/n)) = (1-p)^2n/(n-1)$. Why does this approach differ by an extra n?
            $endgroup$
            – Vahan
            Apr 3 at 0:12










          • $begingroup$
            Event $(B|notA)$ consists of two independent events, $(B_1|not A) =$ "$a_i$ is the first letter printed given that impulse $i$ is not selected" and $(B_2|not A)=$ "$a_i$ is the second letter printed given that impulse $i$ is not selected". $Pr(B|not A)=Pr(B_1| not A)Pr(B_2 |not A)$, where $Pr(B_1| not A)=Pr(B_2| not A)= (1-p)/(n-1)$.
            $endgroup$
            – dnqxt
            Apr 3 at 1:23











          • $begingroup$
            Is there any difference in this case between $P(B|not A)$ and $P(B cap not A)$?
            $endgroup$
            – Vahan
            Apr 3 at 19:55
















          2












          $begingroup$

          Let $A$ be the event that impulse $i$ is chosen and $B$ the event that the first and the second printed letter is $a_i$.



          Use Bayes theorem to obtain the desired probability.
          $$
          P(A|B) = fracA)P(A)notA)P(notA)
          $$



          Now, $P(A) = 1/n, P(B|A) = p^2, P(B|notA)=((1-p)/(n-1))^2, P(notA)=(n-1)/n.$



          Substituting in the formula, the result is $p^2/(p^2+(1-p)^2/(n-1)).$



          Note that $(1-p)/(n-1)$ is the probability that letter $a_i$ is printed given that impulse other than $i$ is selected.






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$












          • $begingroup$
            In this case is it difficult to find P(A|B) directly using P(AB)/B? Also, I'm unclear on P(B|not A). It seems that P(B intersect not A) would be (1-p)^2 so the result would be (1-p)^2n/(n-1).
            $endgroup$
            – Vahan
            Apr 2 at 21:16










          • $begingroup$
            Try thinking in terms of conditional probabilities as specified in the Bayes formula. These conditionals are simpler to compute as shown above. $P(B|notA) = (1-p)^2/(n-1)^2$ is the probability that letter $a_i$ is printed twice given that impulse other than 𝑖 is selected.
            $endgroup$
            – dnqxt
            Apr 2 at 21:37










          • $begingroup$
            That makes sense intuitively, but I was thinking of $P(B|not A) = P(B not A)/P(not A) = (1-p)^2/((n-1)/n)) = (1-p)^2n/(n-1)$. Why does this approach differ by an extra n?
            $endgroup$
            – Vahan
            Apr 3 at 0:12










          • $begingroup$
            Event $(B|notA)$ consists of two independent events, $(B_1|not A) =$ "$a_i$ is the first letter printed given that impulse $i$ is not selected" and $(B_2|not A)=$ "$a_i$ is the second letter printed given that impulse $i$ is not selected". $Pr(B|not A)=Pr(B_1| not A)Pr(B_2 |not A)$, where $Pr(B_1| not A)=Pr(B_2| not A)= (1-p)/(n-1)$.
            $endgroup$
            – dnqxt
            Apr 3 at 1:23











          • $begingroup$
            Is there any difference in this case between $P(B|not A)$ and $P(B cap not A)$?
            $endgroup$
            – Vahan
            Apr 3 at 19:55














          2












          2








          2





          $begingroup$

          Let $A$ be the event that impulse $i$ is chosen and $B$ the event that the first and the second printed letter is $a_i$.



          Use Bayes theorem to obtain the desired probability.
          $$
          P(A|B) = fracA)P(A)notA)P(notA)
          $$



          Now, $P(A) = 1/n, P(B|A) = p^2, P(B|notA)=((1-p)/(n-1))^2, P(notA)=(n-1)/n.$



          Substituting in the formula, the result is $p^2/(p^2+(1-p)^2/(n-1)).$



          Note that $(1-p)/(n-1)$ is the probability that letter $a_i$ is printed given that impulse other than $i$ is selected.






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$



          Let $A$ be the event that impulse $i$ is chosen and $B$ the event that the first and the second printed letter is $a_i$.



          Use Bayes theorem to obtain the desired probability.
          $$
          P(A|B) = fracA)P(A)notA)P(notA)
          $$



          Now, $P(A) = 1/n, P(B|A) = p^2, P(B|notA)=((1-p)/(n-1))^2, P(notA)=(n-1)/n.$



          Substituting in the formula, the result is $p^2/(p^2+(1-p)^2/(n-1)).$



          Note that $(1-p)/(n-1)$ is the probability that letter $a_i$ is printed given that impulse other than $i$ is selected.







          share|cite|improve this answer














          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer








          edited Apr 2 at 18:41

























          answered Apr 2 at 18:34









          dnqxtdnqxt

          8125




          8125











          • $begingroup$
            In this case is it difficult to find P(A|B) directly using P(AB)/B? Also, I'm unclear on P(B|not A). It seems that P(B intersect not A) would be (1-p)^2 so the result would be (1-p)^2n/(n-1).
            $endgroup$
            – Vahan
            Apr 2 at 21:16










          • $begingroup$
            Try thinking in terms of conditional probabilities as specified in the Bayes formula. These conditionals are simpler to compute as shown above. $P(B|notA) = (1-p)^2/(n-1)^2$ is the probability that letter $a_i$ is printed twice given that impulse other than 𝑖 is selected.
            $endgroup$
            – dnqxt
            Apr 2 at 21:37










          • $begingroup$
            That makes sense intuitively, but I was thinking of $P(B|not A) = P(B not A)/P(not A) = (1-p)^2/((n-1)/n)) = (1-p)^2n/(n-1)$. Why does this approach differ by an extra n?
            $endgroup$
            – Vahan
            Apr 3 at 0:12










          • $begingroup$
            Event $(B|notA)$ consists of two independent events, $(B_1|not A) =$ "$a_i$ is the first letter printed given that impulse $i$ is not selected" and $(B_2|not A)=$ "$a_i$ is the second letter printed given that impulse $i$ is not selected". $Pr(B|not A)=Pr(B_1| not A)Pr(B_2 |not A)$, where $Pr(B_1| not A)=Pr(B_2| not A)= (1-p)/(n-1)$.
            $endgroup$
            – dnqxt
            Apr 3 at 1:23











          • $begingroup$
            Is there any difference in this case between $P(B|not A)$ and $P(B cap not A)$?
            $endgroup$
            – Vahan
            Apr 3 at 19:55

















          • $begingroup$
            In this case is it difficult to find P(A|B) directly using P(AB)/B? Also, I'm unclear on P(B|not A). It seems that P(B intersect not A) would be (1-p)^2 so the result would be (1-p)^2n/(n-1).
            $endgroup$
            – Vahan
            Apr 2 at 21:16










          • $begingroup$
            Try thinking in terms of conditional probabilities as specified in the Bayes formula. These conditionals are simpler to compute as shown above. $P(B|notA) = (1-p)^2/(n-1)^2$ is the probability that letter $a_i$ is printed twice given that impulse other than 𝑖 is selected.
            $endgroup$
            – dnqxt
            Apr 2 at 21:37










          • $begingroup$
            That makes sense intuitively, but I was thinking of $P(B|not A) = P(B not A)/P(not A) = (1-p)^2/((n-1)/n)) = (1-p)^2n/(n-1)$. Why does this approach differ by an extra n?
            $endgroup$
            – Vahan
            Apr 3 at 0:12










          • $begingroup$
            Event $(B|notA)$ consists of two independent events, $(B_1|not A) =$ "$a_i$ is the first letter printed given that impulse $i$ is not selected" and $(B_2|not A)=$ "$a_i$ is the second letter printed given that impulse $i$ is not selected". $Pr(B|not A)=Pr(B_1| not A)Pr(B_2 |not A)$, where $Pr(B_1| not A)=Pr(B_2| not A)= (1-p)/(n-1)$.
            $endgroup$
            – dnqxt
            Apr 3 at 1:23











          • $begingroup$
            Is there any difference in this case between $P(B|not A)$ and $P(B cap not A)$?
            $endgroup$
            – Vahan
            Apr 3 at 19:55
















          $begingroup$
          In this case is it difficult to find P(A|B) directly using P(AB)/B? Also, I'm unclear on P(B|not A). It seems that P(B intersect not A) would be (1-p)^2 so the result would be (1-p)^2n/(n-1).
          $endgroup$
          – Vahan
          Apr 2 at 21:16




          $begingroup$
          In this case is it difficult to find P(A|B) directly using P(AB)/B? Also, I'm unclear on P(B|not A). It seems that P(B intersect not A) would be (1-p)^2 so the result would be (1-p)^2n/(n-1).
          $endgroup$
          – Vahan
          Apr 2 at 21:16












          $begingroup$
          Try thinking in terms of conditional probabilities as specified in the Bayes formula. These conditionals are simpler to compute as shown above. $P(B|notA) = (1-p)^2/(n-1)^2$ is the probability that letter $a_i$ is printed twice given that impulse other than 𝑖 is selected.
          $endgroup$
          – dnqxt
          Apr 2 at 21:37




          $begingroup$
          Try thinking in terms of conditional probabilities as specified in the Bayes formula. These conditionals are simpler to compute as shown above. $P(B|notA) = (1-p)^2/(n-1)^2$ is the probability that letter $a_i$ is printed twice given that impulse other than 𝑖 is selected.
          $endgroup$
          – dnqxt
          Apr 2 at 21:37












          $begingroup$
          That makes sense intuitively, but I was thinking of $P(B|not A) = P(B not A)/P(not A) = (1-p)^2/((n-1)/n)) = (1-p)^2n/(n-1)$. Why does this approach differ by an extra n?
          $endgroup$
          – Vahan
          Apr 3 at 0:12




          $begingroup$
          That makes sense intuitively, but I was thinking of $P(B|not A) = P(B not A)/P(not A) = (1-p)^2/((n-1)/n)) = (1-p)^2n/(n-1)$. Why does this approach differ by an extra n?
          $endgroup$
          – Vahan
          Apr 3 at 0:12












          $begingroup$
          Event $(B|notA)$ consists of two independent events, $(B_1|not A) =$ "$a_i$ is the first letter printed given that impulse $i$ is not selected" and $(B_2|not A)=$ "$a_i$ is the second letter printed given that impulse $i$ is not selected". $Pr(B|not A)=Pr(B_1| not A)Pr(B_2 |not A)$, where $Pr(B_1| not A)=Pr(B_2| not A)= (1-p)/(n-1)$.
          $endgroup$
          – dnqxt
          Apr 3 at 1:23





          $begingroup$
          Event $(B|notA)$ consists of two independent events, $(B_1|not A) =$ "$a_i$ is the first letter printed given that impulse $i$ is not selected" and $(B_2|not A)=$ "$a_i$ is the second letter printed given that impulse $i$ is not selected". $Pr(B|not A)=Pr(B_1| not A)Pr(B_2 |not A)$, where $Pr(B_1| not A)=Pr(B_2| not A)= (1-p)/(n-1)$.
          $endgroup$
          – dnqxt
          Apr 3 at 1:23













          $begingroup$
          Is there any difference in this case between $P(B|not A)$ and $P(B cap not A)$?
          $endgroup$
          – Vahan
          Apr 3 at 19:55





          $begingroup$
          Is there any difference in this case between $P(B|not A)$ and $P(B cap not A)$?
          $endgroup$
          – Vahan
          Apr 3 at 19:55


















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