rigorous proof that : $E[X] = sum_k in mathbbN mathbbP(X geq k)$ The Next CEO of Stack OverflowHelp understanding proof of the following statement $E(Y) = sum_i = 1^infty P(Y geq k)$Expected value equals sum of probabilitiesEasy way to compute $Pr[sum_i=1^t X_i geq z]$About the definition of mean square convergence.Indicator function and expectationShow that $sum_n=1^inftyX_n<infty$ almost surely if and only if $sum_n=1^inftymathbb E[fracX_n1+X_n]<infty$.consider a sequence $X_j$ of iid random variables where $X_j$ is in $L_1$ for each jProof of expectation of discrete random variableMeaning of indicator function notation of a random variableHelp understanding proof of the following statement $E(Y) = sum_i = 1^infty P(Y geq k)$Convergence of $E(|X|^k)$ and $sum_i=1^inftyi^k-1P(|X| geq i)$

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rigorous proof that : $E[X] = sum_k in mathbbN mathbbP(X geq k)$



The Next CEO of Stack OverflowHelp understanding proof of the following statement $E(Y) = sum_i = 1^infty P(Y geq k)$Expected value equals sum of probabilitiesEasy way to compute $Pr[sum_i=1^t X_i geq z]$About the definition of mean square convergence.Indicator function and expectationShow that $sum_n=1^inftyX_n<infty$ almost surely if and only if $sum_n=1^inftymathbb E[fracX_n1+X_n]<infty$.consider a sequence $X_j$ of iid random variables where $X_j$ is in $L_1$ for each jProof of expectation of discrete random variableMeaning of indicator function notation of a random variableHelp understanding proof of the following statement $E(Y) = sum_i = 1^infty P(Y geq k)$Convergence of $E(|X|^k)$ and $sum_i=1^inftyi^k-1P(|X| geq i)$










0












$begingroup$



Let $X$ be a random variable : $mathbbN to mathbbN$. Then if $X$ has an expectation we have :
$$E[X] = sum_k in mathbbN mathbbP(X geq k)$$




It's quite logical that its true. The problem is that I don't know how to prove this result rigourously just by manipulating sums. For example I can do the following : $sum_k in mathbbN mathbbP(X geq k) = sum_k in mathbbN sum_i = k^infty mathbbP(X = i)$. It would be nice if I can isolate the $mathbbP(X = i)$ for single $i$, but I don't know how to do this. Maybe I should introduce indicator functions somehow ? and then use Fubini to interchange the summations ?



Thank you !










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  • $begingroup$
    Possible duplicate of Help understanding proof of the following statement $E(Y) = sum_i = 1^infty P(Y geq k)$
    $endgroup$
    – grndl
    yesterday















0












$begingroup$



Let $X$ be a random variable : $mathbbN to mathbbN$. Then if $X$ has an expectation we have :
$$E[X] = sum_k in mathbbN mathbbP(X geq k)$$




It's quite logical that its true. The problem is that I don't know how to prove this result rigourously just by manipulating sums. For example I can do the following : $sum_k in mathbbN mathbbP(X geq k) = sum_k in mathbbN sum_i = k^infty mathbbP(X = i)$. It would be nice if I can isolate the $mathbbP(X = i)$ for single $i$, but I don't know how to do this. Maybe I should introduce indicator functions somehow ? and then use Fubini to interchange the summations ?



Thank you !










share|cite|improve this question







New contributor




1597846254899 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$











  • $begingroup$
    Possible duplicate of Help understanding proof of the following statement $E(Y) = sum_i = 1^infty P(Y geq k)$
    $endgroup$
    – grndl
    yesterday













0












0








0





$begingroup$



Let $X$ be a random variable : $mathbbN to mathbbN$. Then if $X$ has an expectation we have :
$$E[X] = sum_k in mathbbN mathbbP(X geq k)$$




It's quite logical that its true. The problem is that I don't know how to prove this result rigourously just by manipulating sums. For example I can do the following : $sum_k in mathbbN mathbbP(X geq k) = sum_k in mathbbN sum_i = k^infty mathbbP(X = i)$. It would be nice if I can isolate the $mathbbP(X = i)$ for single $i$, but I don't know how to do this. Maybe I should introduce indicator functions somehow ? and then use Fubini to interchange the summations ?



Thank you !










share|cite|improve this question







New contributor




1597846254899 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.







$endgroup$





Let $X$ be a random variable : $mathbbN to mathbbN$. Then if $X$ has an expectation we have :
$$E[X] = sum_k in mathbbN mathbbP(X geq k)$$




It's quite logical that its true. The problem is that I don't know how to prove this result rigourously just by manipulating sums. For example I can do the following : $sum_k in mathbbN mathbbP(X geq k) = sum_k in mathbbN sum_i = k^infty mathbbP(X = i)$. It would be nice if I can isolate the $mathbbP(X = i)$ for single $i$, but I don't know how to do this. Maybe I should introduce indicator functions somehow ? and then use Fubini to interchange the summations ?



Thank you !







probability






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Check out our Code of Conduct.











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asked yesterday









15978462548991597846254899

102




102




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New contributor





1597846254899 is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
Check out our Code of Conduct.






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  • $begingroup$
    Possible duplicate of Help understanding proof of the following statement $E(Y) = sum_i = 1^infty P(Y geq k)$
    $endgroup$
    – grndl
    yesterday
















  • $begingroup$
    Possible duplicate of Help understanding proof of the following statement $E(Y) = sum_i = 1^infty P(Y geq k)$
    $endgroup$
    – grndl
    yesterday















$begingroup$
Possible duplicate of Help understanding proof of the following statement $E(Y) = sum_i = 1^infty P(Y geq k)$
$endgroup$
– grndl
yesterday




$begingroup$
Possible duplicate of Help understanding proof of the following statement $E(Y) = sum_i = 1^infty P(Y geq k)$
$endgroup$
– grndl
yesterday










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes


















1












$begingroup$

For non-negative numbers $a_nm$ we always have $sumlimits_n=1^infty sumlimits_m=1^infty a_nm=sumlimits_m=1^infty sumlimits_n=1^infty a_nm$ even without the assumption of convergence. Fubini's Theorem is not required for this. You can just use partial sums and take limits to show that each side is less than or equal to the other. Apply this result with $a_nm=P(X= n)$ for $n geq m$ and $0$ for $n<m$ to get the expression for $EX$.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$




















    0












    $begingroup$

    The trick with the indicator function works:



    • Consider $X_n := Xcdot I_[1,n]$

    • $Rightarrow 0leq X_n nearrow X$

    • According to monotone convergence theorem we have
      $$E(X) = lim_nto infty E(X_n)$$

    Now, calculating $E(X_n)$ you get



    begineqnarray*E(X_n)
    & = & sum_i=1^n i P(X=i) \
    & = & sum_i=1^nP(X=i)sum_k=1^i 1 \
    & = & sum_k=1^nunderbracesum_i=k^n P(X=i)_=P(Xgeq k) \
    & = & sum_k=1^n P(X geq k) \
    endeqnarray*



    Now, taking the limit gives
    $$E(X) = lim_n to inftyE(X_n) =lim_n to inftysum_k=1^n P(X geq k) = sum_k=1^infty P(X geq k)$$






    share|cite|improve this answer











    $endgroup$




















      -1












      $begingroup$

      Here is how you can "discover" the desired result. Begin with
      $$P(Xgeq 1)=P(X=1)+P(Xgeq 2)$$
      Add $P(Xgeq 2)$ to both sides:
      $$P(Xgeq 1)+P(Xgeq 2)=P(X=1)+2P(Xgeq 2)=P(X=1)+2P(X=2)+2P(Xgeq 3)$$
      in the r.h.s equality the fact that $X$ takes only integer values is used.
      Add $P(Xgeq 3)$ to both sides:
      $$sum_k=1^3P(Xgeq k)=sum_k=1^3kP(X=k)+3P(Xgeq 4)$$
      And by induction, you get that for every natural number $n$
      $$sum_k=1^nP(Xgeq k)=sum_k=1^nkP(X=k)+nP(Xgeq n+1)quad (*)$$
      So now your problem is to prove that
      $$lim_ntoinftynP(Xgeq n+1)=0$$
      But you are given that the expectation $E(X)$ exists, which by definition means that the series
      $$sum_k=1^inftykP(X=k)$$
      is convergent, which implies that $nP(X=n)$ tends to zero as $ntoinfty$. Since
      $$nP(Xgeq n+1)leq nP(Xgeq n)$$
      we deduce that $nP(Xgeq n+1)$ tends to zero as well, and letting $ntoinfty$ in (*) gives the desired result.






      share|cite|improve this answer









      $endgroup$













        Your Answer





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        3 Answers
        3






        active

        oldest

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        3 Answers
        3






        active

        oldest

        votes









        active

        oldest

        votes






        active

        oldest

        votes









        1












        $begingroup$

        For non-negative numbers $a_nm$ we always have $sumlimits_n=1^infty sumlimits_m=1^infty a_nm=sumlimits_m=1^infty sumlimits_n=1^infty a_nm$ even without the assumption of convergence. Fubini's Theorem is not required for this. You can just use partial sums and take limits to show that each side is less than or equal to the other. Apply this result with $a_nm=P(X= n)$ for $n geq m$ and $0$ for $n<m$ to get the expression for $EX$.






        share|cite|improve this answer









        $endgroup$

















          1












          $begingroup$

          For non-negative numbers $a_nm$ we always have $sumlimits_n=1^infty sumlimits_m=1^infty a_nm=sumlimits_m=1^infty sumlimits_n=1^infty a_nm$ even without the assumption of convergence. Fubini's Theorem is not required for this. You can just use partial sums and take limits to show that each side is less than or equal to the other. Apply this result with $a_nm=P(X= n)$ for $n geq m$ and $0$ for $n<m$ to get the expression for $EX$.






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$















            1












            1








            1





            $begingroup$

            For non-negative numbers $a_nm$ we always have $sumlimits_n=1^infty sumlimits_m=1^infty a_nm=sumlimits_m=1^infty sumlimits_n=1^infty a_nm$ even without the assumption of convergence. Fubini's Theorem is not required for this. You can just use partial sums and take limits to show that each side is less than or equal to the other. Apply this result with $a_nm=P(X= n)$ for $n geq m$ and $0$ for $n<m$ to get the expression for $EX$.






            share|cite|improve this answer









            $endgroup$



            For non-negative numbers $a_nm$ we always have $sumlimits_n=1^infty sumlimits_m=1^infty a_nm=sumlimits_m=1^infty sumlimits_n=1^infty a_nm$ even without the assumption of convergence. Fubini's Theorem is not required for this. You can just use partial sums and take limits to show that each side is less than or equal to the other. Apply this result with $a_nm=P(X= n)$ for $n geq m$ and $0$ for $n<m$ to get the expression for $EX$.







            share|cite|improve this answer












            share|cite|improve this answer



            share|cite|improve this answer










            answered yesterday









            Kavi Rama MurthyKavi Rama Murthy

            70.8k53170




            70.8k53170





















                0












                $begingroup$

                The trick with the indicator function works:



                • Consider $X_n := Xcdot I_[1,n]$

                • $Rightarrow 0leq X_n nearrow X$

                • According to monotone convergence theorem we have
                  $$E(X) = lim_nto infty E(X_n)$$

                Now, calculating $E(X_n)$ you get



                begineqnarray*E(X_n)
                & = & sum_i=1^n i P(X=i) \
                & = & sum_i=1^nP(X=i)sum_k=1^i 1 \
                & = & sum_k=1^nunderbracesum_i=k^n P(X=i)_=P(Xgeq k) \
                & = & sum_k=1^n P(X geq k) \
                endeqnarray*



                Now, taking the limit gives
                $$E(X) = lim_n to inftyE(X_n) =lim_n to inftysum_k=1^n P(X geq k) = sum_k=1^infty P(X geq k)$$






                share|cite|improve this answer











                $endgroup$

















                  0












                  $begingroup$

                  The trick with the indicator function works:



                  • Consider $X_n := Xcdot I_[1,n]$

                  • $Rightarrow 0leq X_n nearrow X$

                  • According to monotone convergence theorem we have
                    $$E(X) = lim_nto infty E(X_n)$$

                  Now, calculating $E(X_n)$ you get



                  begineqnarray*E(X_n)
                  & = & sum_i=1^n i P(X=i) \
                  & = & sum_i=1^nP(X=i)sum_k=1^i 1 \
                  & = & sum_k=1^nunderbracesum_i=k^n P(X=i)_=P(Xgeq k) \
                  & = & sum_k=1^n P(X geq k) \
                  endeqnarray*



                  Now, taking the limit gives
                  $$E(X) = lim_n to inftyE(X_n) =lim_n to inftysum_k=1^n P(X geq k) = sum_k=1^infty P(X geq k)$$






                  share|cite|improve this answer











                  $endgroup$















                    0












                    0








                    0





                    $begingroup$

                    The trick with the indicator function works:



                    • Consider $X_n := Xcdot I_[1,n]$

                    • $Rightarrow 0leq X_n nearrow X$

                    • According to monotone convergence theorem we have
                      $$E(X) = lim_nto infty E(X_n)$$

                    Now, calculating $E(X_n)$ you get



                    begineqnarray*E(X_n)
                    & = & sum_i=1^n i P(X=i) \
                    & = & sum_i=1^nP(X=i)sum_k=1^i 1 \
                    & = & sum_k=1^nunderbracesum_i=k^n P(X=i)_=P(Xgeq k) \
                    & = & sum_k=1^n P(X geq k) \
                    endeqnarray*



                    Now, taking the limit gives
                    $$E(X) = lim_n to inftyE(X_n) =lim_n to inftysum_k=1^n P(X geq k) = sum_k=1^infty P(X geq k)$$






                    share|cite|improve this answer











                    $endgroup$



                    The trick with the indicator function works:



                    • Consider $X_n := Xcdot I_[1,n]$

                    • $Rightarrow 0leq X_n nearrow X$

                    • According to monotone convergence theorem we have
                      $$E(X) = lim_nto infty E(X_n)$$

                    Now, calculating $E(X_n)$ you get



                    begineqnarray*E(X_n)
                    & = & sum_i=1^n i P(X=i) \
                    & = & sum_i=1^nP(X=i)sum_k=1^i 1 \
                    & = & sum_k=1^nunderbracesum_i=k^n P(X=i)_=P(Xgeq k) \
                    & = & sum_k=1^n P(X geq k) \
                    endeqnarray*



                    Now, taking the limit gives
                    $$E(X) = lim_n to inftyE(X_n) =lim_n to inftysum_k=1^n P(X geq k) = sum_k=1^infty P(X geq k)$$







                    share|cite|improve this answer














                    share|cite|improve this answer



                    share|cite|improve this answer








                    edited yesterday

























                    answered yesterday









                    trancelocationtrancelocation

                    13.2k1827




                    13.2k1827





















                        -1












                        $begingroup$

                        Here is how you can "discover" the desired result. Begin with
                        $$P(Xgeq 1)=P(X=1)+P(Xgeq 2)$$
                        Add $P(Xgeq 2)$ to both sides:
                        $$P(Xgeq 1)+P(Xgeq 2)=P(X=1)+2P(Xgeq 2)=P(X=1)+2P(X=2)+2P(Xgeq 3)$$
                        in the r.h.s equality the fact that $X$ takes only integer values is used.
                        Add $P(Xgeq 3)$ to both sides:
                        $$sum_k=1^3P(Xgeq k)=sum_k=1^3kP(X=k)+3P(Xgeq 4)$$
                        And by induction, you get that for every natural number $n$
                        $$sum_k=1^nP(Xgeq k)=sum_k=1^nkP(X=k)+nP(Xgeq n+1)quad (*)$$
                        So now your problem is to prove that
                        $$lim_ntoinftynP(Xgeq n+1)=0$$
                        But you are given that the expectation $E(X)$ exists, which by definition means that the series
                        $$sum_k=1^inftykP(X=k)$$
                        is convergent, which implies that $nP(X=n)$ tends to zero as $ntoinfty$. Since
                        $$nP(Xgeq n+1)leq nP(Xgeq n)$$
                        we deduce that $nP(Xgeq n+1)$ tends to zero as well, and letting $ntoinfty$ in (*) gives the desired result.






                        share|cite|improve this answer









                        $endgroup$

















                          -1












                          $begingroup$

                          Here is how you can "discover" the desired result. Begin with
                          $$P(Xgeq 1)=P(X=1)+P(Xgeq 2)$$
                          Add $P(Xgeq 2)$ to both sides:
                          $$P(Xgeq 1)+P(Xgeq 2)=P(X=1)+2P(Xgeq 2)=P(X=1)+2P(X=2)+2P(Xgeq 3)$$
                          in the r.h.s equality the fact that $X$ takes only integer values is used.
                          Add $P(Xgeq 3)$ to both sides:
                          $$sum_k=1^3P(Xgeq k)=sum_k=1^3kP(X=k)+3P(Xgeq 4)$$
                          And by induction, you get that for every natural number $n$
                          $$sum_k=1^nP(Xgeq k)=sum_k=1^nkP(X=k)+nP(Xgeq n+1)quad (*)$$
                          So now your problem is to prove that
                          $$lim_ntoinftynP(Xgeq n+1)=0$$
                          But you are given that the expectation $E(X)$ exists, which by definition means that the series
                          $$sum_k=1^inftykP(X=k)$$
                          is convergent, which implies that $nP(X=n)$ tends to zero as $ntoinfty$. Since
                          $$nP(Xgeq n+1)leq nP(Xgeq n)$$
                          we deduce that $nP(Xgeq n+1)$ tends to zero as well, and letting $ntoinfty$ in (*) gives the desired result.






                          share|cite|improve this answer









                          $endgroup$















                            -1












                            -1








                            -1





                            $begingroup$

                            Here is how you can "discover" the desired result. Begin with
                            $$P(Xgeq 1)=P(X=1)+P(Xgeq 2)$$
                            Add $P(Xgeq 2)$ to both sides:
                            $$P(Xgeq 1)+P(Xgeq 2)=P(X=1)+2P(Xgeq 2)=P(X=1)+2P(X=2)+2P(Xgeq 3)$$
                            in the r.h.s equality the fact that $X$ takes only integer values is used.
                            Add $P(Xgeq 3)$ to both sides:
                            $$sum_k=1^3P(Xgeq k)=sum_k=1^3kP(X=k)+3P(Xgeq 4)$$
                            And by induction, you get that for every natural number $n$
                            $$sum_k=1^nP(Xgeq k)=sum_k=1^nkP(X=k)+nP(Xgeq n+1)quad (*)$$
                            So now your problem is to prove that
                            $$lim_ntoinftynP(Xgeq n+1)=0$$
                            But you are given that the expectation $E(X)$ exists, which by definition means that the series
                            $$sum_k=1^inftykP(X=k)$$
                            is convergent, which implies that $nP(X=n)$ tends to zero as $ntoinfty$. Since
                            $$nP(Xgeq n+1)leq nP(Xgeq n)$$
                            we deduce that $nP(Xgeq n+1)$ tends to zero as well, and letting $ntoinfty$ in (*) gives the desired result.






                            share|cite|improve this answer









                            $endgroup$



                            Here is how you can "discover" the desired result. Begin with
                            $$P(Xgeq 1)=P(X=1)+P(Xgeq 2)$$
                            Add $P(Xgeq 2)$ to both sides:
                            $$P(Xgeq 1)+P(Xgeq 2)=P(X=1)+2P(Xgeq 2)=P(X=1)+2P(X=2)+2P(Xgeq 3)$$
                            in the r.h.s equality the fact that $X$ takes only integer values is used.
                            Add $P(Xgeq 3)$ to both sides:
                            $$sum_k=1^3P(Xgeq k)=sum_k=1^3kP(X=k)+3P(Xgeq 4)$$
                            And by induction, you get that for every natural number $n$
                            $$sum_k=1^nP(Xgeq k)=sum_k=1^nkP(X=k)+nP(Xgeq n+1)quad (*)$$
                            So now your problem is to prove that
                            $$lim_ntoinftynP(Xgeq n+1)=0$$
                            But you are given that the expectation $E(X)$ exists, which by definition means that the series
                            $$sum_k=1^inftykP(X=k)$$
                            is convergent, which implies that $nP(X=n)$ tends to zero as $ntoinfty$. Since
                            $$nP(Xgeq n+1)leq nP(Xgeq n)$$
                            we deduce that $nP(Xgeq n+1)$ tends to zero as well, and letting $ntoinfty$ in (*) gives the desired result.







                            share|cite|improve this answer












                            share|cite|improve this answer



                            share|cite|improve this answer










                            answered yesterday









                            uniquesolutionuniquesolution

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