Where is the flaw in this “proof” that 1=2? (Derivative of repeated addition)What's wrong in this equation?How to disprove this fallacy that derivatives of $x^2$ and $x+x+x+cdots (xtext times)$ are not same.A contradiction involving derivativeJust got confused with what my friend asked (paradox and fake proofs).Why $2x$? Can't it be $x$?What is wrong with this derivation of $fracddxx^2$?Proof that 2=1 using differentiationAnother $1=2$ proofA proof that $1=2$. May I know why it’s false?Funny Proof of $2=1$A contradiction involving derivativeHow to disprove this fallacy that derivatives of $x^2$ and $x+x+x+cdots (xtext times)$ are not same.Where is the flaw that led to the fallacy that $x^4 + y^4 = z^4$?Funny thing. Multiplying both the sides by 0?Flaw in proof that a functional is not continuousFake proof for “differentiability implies continuous derivative”: reviewErroneous proof that derivative tending to $infty$ implies that the function is not uniformly continuous.Finding a mistake in this 'proof' that $1 = 2$.Where is the logical flaw in solving this equation?Proof that $0=1$?

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Where is the flaw in this “proof” that 1=2? (Derivative of repeated addition)


What's wrong in this equation?How to disprove this fallacy that derivatives of $x^2$ and $x+x+x+cdots (xtext times)$ are not same.A contradiction involving derivativeJust got confused with what my friend asked (paradox and fake proofs).Why $2x$? Can't it be $x$?What is wrong with this derivation of $fracddxx^2$?Proof that 2=1 using differentiationAnother $1=2$ proofA proof that $1=2$. May I know why it’s false?Funny Proof of $2=1$A contradiction involving derivativeHow to disprove this fallacy that derivatives of $x^2$ and $x+x+x+cdots (xtext times)$ are not same.Where is the flaw that led to the fallacy that $x^4 + y^4 = z^4$?Funny thing. Multiplying both the sides by 0?Flaw in proof that a functional is not continuousFake proof for “differentiability implies continuous derivative”: reviewErroneous proof that derivative tending to $infty$ implies that the function is not uniformly continuous.Finding a mistake in this 'proof' that $1 = 2$.Where is the logical flaw in solving this equation?Proof that $0=1$?













61












$begingroup$


Consider the following:



  • $1 = 1^2$

  • $2 + 2 = 2^2$

  • $3 + 3 + 3 = 3^2$

Therefore,



  • $underbracex + x + x + ldots + x_x textrm times= x^2$

Take the derivative of lhs and rhs and we get:



  • $underbrace1 + 1 + 1 + ldots + 1_x textrm times = 2x$

Which simplifies to:



  • $x = 2x$

and hence



  • $1 = 2$.


Clearly something is wrong but I am unable pinpoint my mistake.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$











  • $begingroup$
    Please edit your title to make it more clear which fake proof you are asking about.
    $endgroup$
    – Larry Wang
    Jul 29 '10 at 2:47







  • 5




    $begingroup$
    Right before taking the derivative, x was an integer, and what you did before that point only makes sense for x integer. Then you computed the derivative, and then that does not make sense.
    $endgroup$
    – Mariano Suárez-Álvarez
    Jul 29 '10 at 2:48










  • $begingroup$
    @Kaestur I am not sure what you want me to do. Is there a specific name for this fake proof?
    $endgroup$
    – user116
    Jul 29 '10 at 2:51











  • $begingroup$
    @Srikant: To clarify, the reason I asked that is so that people about to ask a similar question in the future may see yours come up as a suggested duplicate. Something including "derivative of 1+...+1 (x times)" would be uniquely identifying, I think. If there is a canonical name for this one, chances are people about to ask it won't know it, but will recognize that line.
    $endgroup$
    – Larry Wang
    Jul 29 '10 at 3:04










  • $begingroup$
    @Kaestur I actually think retaining the title as it is written now is better as most people are more likely to write 'proof of 1 = 2' rather than some description of their proof in the title.
    $endgroup$
    – user116
    Jul 29 '10 at 4:22
















61












$begingroup$


Consider the following:



  • $1 = 1^2$

  • $2 + 2 = 2^2$

  • $3 + 3 + 3 = 3^2$

Therefore,



  • $underbracex + x + x + ldots + x_x textrm times= x^2$

Take the derivative of lhs and rhs and we get:



  • $underbrace1 + 1 + 1 + ldots + 1_x textrm times = 2x$

Which simplifies to:



  • $x = 2x$

and hence



  • $1 = 2$.


Clearly something is wrong but I am unable pinpoint my mistake.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$











  • $begingroup$
    Please edit your title to make it more clear which fake proof you are asking about.
    $endgroup$
    – Larry Wang
    Jul 29 '10 at 2:47







  • 5




    $begingroup$
    Right before taking the derivative, x was an integer, and what you did before that point only makes sense for x integer. Then you computed the derivative, and then that does not make sense.
    $endgroup$
    – Mariano Suárez-Álvarez
    Jul 29 '10 at 2:48










  • $begingroup$
    @Kaestur I am not sure what you want me to do. Is there a specific name for this fake proof?
    $endgroup$
    – user116
    Jul 29 '10 at 2:51











  • $begingroup$
    @Srikant: To clarify, the reason I asked that is so that people about to ask a similar question in the future may see yours come up as a suggested duplicate. Something including "derivative of 1+...+1 (x times)" would be uniquely identifying, I think. If there is a canonical name for this one, chances are people about to ask it won't know it, but will recognize that line.
    $endgroup$
    – Larry Wang
    Jul 29 '10 at 3:04










  • $begingroup$
    @Kaestur I actually think retaining the title as it is written now is better as most people are more likely to write 'proof of 1 = 2' rather than some description of their proof in the title.
    $endgroup$
    – user116
    Jul 29 '10 at 4:22














61












61








61


32



$begingroup$


Consider the following:



  • $1 = 1^2$

  • $2 + 2 = 2^2$

  • $3 + 3 + 3 = 3^2$

Therefore,



  • $underbracex + x + x + ldots + x_x textrm times= x^2$

Take the derivative of lhs and rhs and we get:



  • $underbrace1 + 1 + 1 + ldots + 1_x textrm times = 2x$

Which simplifies to:



  • $x = 2x$

and hence



  • $1 = 2$.


Clearly something is wrong but I am unable pinpoint my mistake.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




Consider the following:



  • $1 = 1^2$

  • $2 + 2 = 2^2$

  • $3 + 3 + 3 = 3^2$

Therefore,



  • $underbracex + x + x + ldots + x_x textrm times= x^2$

Take the derivative of lhs and rhs and we get:



  • $underbrace1 + 1 + 1 + ldots + 1_x textrm times = 2x$

Which simplifies to:



  • $x = 2x$

and hence



  • $1 = 2$.


Clearly something is wrong but I am unable pinpoint my mistake.







calculus recreational-mathematics fake-proofs






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited Sep 13 '15 at 20:52









Lord_Farin

15.7k636110




15.7k636110










asked Jul 29 '10 at 2:38







user116


















  • $begingroup$
    Please edit your title to make it more clear which fake proof you are asking about.
    $endgroup$
    – Larry Wang
    Jul 29 '10 at 2:47







  • 5




    $begingroup$
    Right before taking the derivative, x was an integer, and what you did before that point only makes sense for x integer. Then you computed the derivative, and then that does not make sense.
    $endgroup$
    – Mariano Suárez-Álvarez
    Jul 29 '10 at 2:48










  • $begingroup$
    @Kaestur I am not sure what you want me to do. Is there a specific name for this fake proof?
    $endgroup$
    – user116
    Jul 29 '10 at 2:51











  • $begingroup$
    @Srikant: To clarify, the reason I asked that is so that people about to ask a similar question in the future may see yours come up as a suggested duplicate. Something including "derivative of 1+...+1 (x times)" would be uniquely identifying, I think. If there is a canonical name for this one, chances are people about to ask it won't know it, but will recognize that line.
    $endgroup$
    – Larry Wang
    Jul 29 '10 at 3:04










  • $begingroup$
    @Kaestur I actually think retaining the title as it is written now is better as most people are more likely to write 'proof of 1 = 2' rather than some description of their proof in the title.
    $endgroup$
    – user116
    Jul 29 '10 at 4:22

















  • $begingroup$
    Please edit your title to make it more clear which fake proof you are asking about.
    $endgroup$
    – Larry Wang
    Jul 29 '10 at 2:47







  • 5




    $begingroup$
    Right before taking the derivative, x was an integer, and what you did before that point only makes sense for x integer. Then you computed the derivative, and then that does not make sense.
    $endgroup$
    – Mariano Suárez-Álvarez
    Jul 29 '10 at 2:48










  • $begingroup$
    @Kaestur I am not sure what you want me to do. Is there a specific name for this fake proof?
    $endgroup$
    – user116
    Jul 29 '10 at 2:51











  • $begingroup$
    @Srikant: To clarify, the reason I asked that is so that people about to ask a similar question in the future may see yours come up as a suggested duplicate. Something including "derivative of 1+...+1 (x times)" would be uniquely identifying, I think. If there is a canonical name for this one, chances are people about to ask it won't know it, but will recognize that line.
    $endgroup$
    – Larry Wang
    Jul 29 '10 at 3:04










  • $begingroup$
    @Kaestur I actually think retaining the title as it is written now is better as most people are more likely to write 'proof of 1 = 2' rather than some description of their proof in the title.
    $endgroup$
    – user116
    Jul 29 '10 at 4:22
















$begingroup$
Please edit your title to make it more clear which fake proof you are asking about.
$endgroup$
– Larry Wang
Jul 29 '10 at 2:47





$begingroup$
Please edit your title to make it more clear which fake proof you are asking about.
$endgroup$
– Larry Wang
Jul 29 '10 at 2:47





5




5




$begingroup$
Right before taking the derivative, x was an integer, and what you did before that point only makes sense for x integer. Then you computed the derivative, and then that does not make sense.
$endgroup$
– Mariano Suárez-Álvarez
Jul 29 '10 at 2:48




$begingroup$
Right before taking the derivative, x was an integer, and what you did before that point only makes sense for x integer. Then you computed the derivative, and then that does not make sense.
$endgroup$
– Mariano Suárez-Álvarez
Jul 29 '10 at 2:48












$begingroup$
@Kaestur I am not sure what you want me to do. Is there a specific name for this fake proof?
$endgroup$
– user116
Jul 29 '10 at 2:51





$begingroup$
@Kaestur I am not sure what you want me to do. Is there a specific name for this fake proof?
$endgroup$
– user116
Jul 29 '10 at 2:51













$begingroup$
@Srikant: To clarify, the reason I asked that is so that people about to ask a similar question in the future may see yours come up as a suggested duplicate. Something including "derivative of 1+...+1 (x times)" would be uniquely identifying, I think. If there is a canonical name for this one, chances are people about to ask it won't know it, but will recognize that line.
$endgroup$
– Larry Wang
Jul 29 '10 at 3:04




$begingroup$
@Srikant: To clarify, the reason I asked that is so that people about to ask a similar question in the future may see yours come up as a suggested duplicate. Something including "derivative of 1+...+1 (x times)" would be uniquely identifying, I think. If there is a canonical name for this one, chances are people about to ask it won't know it, but will recognize that line.
$endgroup$
– Larry Wang
Jul 29 '10 at 3:04












$begingroup$
@Kaestur I actually think retaining the title as it is written now is better as most people are more likely to write 'proof of 1 = 2' rather than some description of their proof in the title.
$endgroup$
– user116
Jul 29 '10 at 4:22





$begingroup$
@Kaestur I actually think retaining the title as it is written now is better as most people are more likely to write 'proof of 1 = 2' rather than some description of their proof in the title.
$endgroup$
– user116
Jul 29 '10 at 4:22











9 Answers
9






active

oldest

votes


















58












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You cannot take the derivative with respect to x of x + x + x + ... (repeated x times) one term at a time because the number of terms depends on x.



Even beyond that, if you can express x2 as x + x + x + ... (repeated x times), then x must be an integer and if the domain of the expression is the integers, (continuous) differentiation does not make sense and/or the derivatives do not exist.



(edit: I gave my first reason first because the second reason can be smoothed over by taking "repeated x times" to mean something like $undersetlfloor xrfloormathrm addendsunderbracex+x+cdots+x+(x-lfloor xrfloor)cdot x$.)






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$








  • 23




    $begingroup$
    A simpler version: 1+1+...+1 repeated x times = x. Now you can see that the left hand side is obviously not constant with respect to x.
    $endgroup$
    – Jules
    Feb 22 '11 at 19:44










  • $begingroup$
    Of course, the derivative of $(x-lfloor xrfloor)cdot x$ is $2x-lfloor xrfloor$ when the derivative is defined, so the value you'd get is $2x$ if you took the continuous version.
    $endgroup$
    – Thomas Andrews
    May 16 '17 at 20:30











  • $begingroup$
    "You cannot take the derivative with respect to x of x + x + x + ... (repeated x times) one term at a time because the number of terms depends on x."-@issac i really loved this statement...but could you please explain about it a bit more?
    $endgroup$
    – Rangan Aryan
    Mar 25 at 4:19


















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I think the discrete/continuous issue is sort of a red herring. To me, the problem is forgetting to use the chain rule!



To un-discretize, think of the function $F(u,v) = uv$, which we could think of as $u + dots + u$, $v$ times. Then $x^2 = F(x,x)$. Differentiating both sides gives $2x = F_u(x,x) + F_v(x,x)$, which is perfectly true. In the fallacious example, the problem is essentially that the $F_v$ term has been omitted. In some sense, one has forgotten to differentiate the operation "$x$ times" with respect to $x$! Of course, the notation makes this easier to do.






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  • 12




    $begingroup$
    This is a nice explanation.
    $endgroup$
    – Matt E
    Aug 11 '10 at 4:35






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    I side with you on this one. I answered a similar thing here
    $endgroup$
    – Pedro Tamaroff
    Jul 27 '12 at 2:41


















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Here's my explanation from an old sci.math post:




Zachary Turner wrote on 26 Jul 2002:




Let D = d/dx = derivative wrt x. Then



D[x^2] = D[x + x + ... + x (x times)]
= D[x] + D[x] + ... + D[x] (x times)
= 1 + 1 + ... + 1 (x times)
= x



An obvious analogous fallacious argument proves both



  • $ $ D[x f(x)] = Df(x) (x times) = x Df(x)


  • $ $ D[x f(x)] = Dx (f(x) times) = f(x), via Dx = 1


vs. the correct result: their sum $rm:f(x) + x, Df(x):$
as given by the Leibniz product rule (= chain rule for times).
The error arises from overlooking the dependence upon x in both
arguments of the product $rm: x f(x):$ when applying the chain rule.



The source of the error becomes clearer if we consider a
discrete analog. This will also eliminate any tangential
concerns on the meaning of "(x times)" for non-integer x.
Namely, we consider the shift operator $rm S:, n to n+1 $ on polynomials $rm:p(n):$ with integer coefficients, where $rm:S p(n) = p(n+1).:$ Here is a similar fallacy



 S[n^2] = S[n + n + ... + n (n times)]
= S[n] + S[n] + ... + S[n] (n times)
= 1+n + 1+n + ... + 1+n (n times)
= (1+n)n


But correct is $rm S[n^2] = (n+1)^2.:$ Here the "product rule" is
$rm S[fg] = S[f], S[g], $ not $rm: S[f] g:$ as above.



The fallacy actually boils down to operator noncommutativity.
On the space of functions $rm:f(x),:$ consider "x" as the linear
operator of multiplication by x, so $rm x:, f(x) to x f(x).:$ Then
the linear operators $rm:D:$ and $rm:x:$ generate an operator algebra
of polynomials $rm:p(x,D):$ in NON-commutative indeterminates $rm:x,D:$
since we have



 (Dx)[f] = D[xf] = xD[f] + f = (xD+1)[f], so Dx = xD + 1 ≠ xD

(Sn)[f] = S[nf] = (n+1)S[f], so Sn = (n+1)S ≠ nS


This view reveals the error as mistakenly
assuming commutativity of the operators $rm:x,D:$ or $rm:n,S.$



Perhaps something to ponder on boring commutes !






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    9












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    You cannot differentiate the LHS of your equation




    $x + x + x + cdots$ (repeated $x$ times) = $x^2$




    This is because the LHS is not a continuous function; the number of terms depends on $x$ so the LHS is not well defined when $x$ is not an integer. We can only differentiate continuous functions, so this is not valid.






    share|cite|improve this answer











    $endgroup$








    • 9




      $begingroup$
      The problem is not so much that the LHS is not continuous: it is defined on a discrete set (so in particular it is continuous!).
      $endgroup$
      – Mariano Suárez-Álvarez
      Jul 29 '10 at 3:00


















    8












    $begingroup$

    We can create the same "paradox" with finite differences over integers.



    Given $f: mathbb Z to mathbb Z$ define the "discrete derivative"
    $$
    Delta f (n)=f(n+1)-f(n)
    $$
    we have the following obvious "theorems":



    • $Delta(n)=n+1-n=1$

    • $Delta(n^2)=(n+1)^2-n^2=2n+1$

    • $Delta (f_1+cdots +f_k)=Delta f_1 + cdots +Delta f_k$

    • $f(n)=g(n) ; forall n quad implies quad Delta f(n)=Delta g(n) ; forall n$

    So we can start with the correct equality:



    $$
    underbracen + n + n + ldots + n_n textrm times= n^2
    $$



    and we apply $Delta$ on both sides taking advantage from the "theorems" above: we get
    $$
    underbrace1 + 1 + 1 + ldots + 1_n textrm times = 2n+1
    $$
    so we conclude $n=2n+1$ and we have the paradox.



    Here maybe the mistake is more clear: the rule $Delta (f_1+cdots +f_k)=Delta f_1 + cdots +Delta f_k$ doesn't work when $k$ is a function (of the same variable of the $f_i$), in fact it amounts to do a computation like this:
    $$
    Delta(underbracen + ldots + n_n textrm times)=
    underbrace(n+1) + ldots + (n+1)_colorRedn textrm times-(underbracen + ldots + n_n textrm times)=n
    $$
    that is wrong, the right way being this:
    $$
    Delta(underbracen + ldots + n_n textrm times)=
    underbrace(n+1) + ldots + (n+1)_colorGreen(n+1) textrm times-(underbracen + ldots + n_n textrm times)=n+(n+1).
    $$






    share|cite|improve this answer











    $endgroup$




















      4












      $begingroup$

      Lets define what is x+x+x+... x times for x - real. Natural definition is x+x+x.. := x*x (note - just the same as Isaac has wrote in his edit).



      Suppose we want left our initial definition as is. We don't know what is x+x+.. repeat x times for x - real (and note we don't have rule how to obtain derivative from such func). So lets use definition of derivative. f(x):=x+x+x.. repeat x times, Df(x)=(f(x+h)-f(x))/h, h->0. Df(x)=((x+h+x+h+x+h.. repeat x+h times) - (x+x+x.. repeat x times))/h, h->0. Suppose x+x+... repeat a+b times := (x+x+.. repeat a times) + (x+x+.. repeat b times) we have Df(x)=((x+h+x+h+x+h.. repeat x times) - (x+x+x.. repeat x times) + (x+h+x+h+x+h.. repeat h times))/h, h->0, Df(x)=((h+h+h.. repeat x times) + (x+h+x+h+x+h.. repeat h times))/h, h->0, or Df(x)=(1+1+1.. repeat x times) + (x+h+x+h+x+h.. repeat 1 times), h->0 and at last Df(x)=x + x+h, h->0 = 2x






      share|cite|improve this answer









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        3












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        There is the sum rule in differentiation:
        $$(f_1(x)+f_2(x)+...+f_k(x))'=f_1'(x)+f_2'(x)+...+f_k'(x),$$ where $k$ is any positive integer number.

        We can not use this rule to take the derivative of LHS, because $x$ in "$x$ times" is not a number, it is a variable, like in "function $f(x)$".






        share|cite|improve this answer











        $endgroup$




















          -1












          $begingroup$

          The problem is that the equation $x + cdots + x = x^2$ only holds for two values of $x$, namely if you added $x$ with itself $n$ times, it holds at $x=0$ and $x=n$. Therefore your equation becomes $nx = x^2$, the differential is $n = 2x$ (the number of terms in the LHS of the equation should not depend on the real/complex parameter $x$) and the only thing you can deduce from this is that the first equation is equivalent to $x^2 - nx = x(x-n) = 0$ and the second equation is $x=n/2$, so when $x=0$ or $x=n$ then the sum of the $x$'s and $x^2$ are equal, and when $x=n/2$ the derivative of the sum and $x^2$ are equal. The deduction that $1=2$ is simply not true. The equality $nx = x^2$ is not comparable to an equality like $sin x^2 = 1 - cos x^2$ : the equation $nx = x^2$ holds for only two values of $x$, where as the trigonometric equation holds for any real/complex value of $x$.



          Hope that helps,






          share|cite|improve this answer









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            -3












            $begingroup$

            Even if x were to be an integer, once you have x=2x, a possible value for is 0 which would make that equation true. Thus if x can be zero, then you are simply dividing by a variable that equals 0. And you cannot divide by zero!!!!






            share|cite|improve this answer









            $endgroup$












            • $begingroup$
              The derivative of $f(x) = x^2$ at $x = 0$ is $0$. No division by zero necessary. -1
              $endgroup$
              – Thomas
              Mar 3 '14 at 4:40









            protected by Daniel Fischer Sep 12 '15 at 18:40



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            9 Answers
            9






            active

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            9 Answers
            9






            active

            oldest

            votes









            active

            oldest

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            active

            oldest

            votes









            58












            $begingroup$

            You cannot take the derivative with respect to x of x + x + x + ... (repeated x times) one term at a time because the number of terms depends on x.



            Even beyond that, if you can express x2 as x + x + x + ... (repeated x times), then x must be an integer and if the domain of the expression is the integers, (continuous) differentiation does not make sense and/or the derivatives do not exist.



            (edit: I gave my first reason first because the second reason can be smoothed over by taking "repeated x times" to mean something like $undersetlfloor xrfloormathrm addendsunderbracex+x+cdots+x+(x-lfloor xrfloor)cdot x$.)






            share|cite|improve this answer











            $endgroup$








            • 23




              $begingroup$
              A simpler version: 1+1+...+1 repeated x times = x. Now you can see that the left hand side is obviously not constant with respect to x.
              $endgroup$
              – Jules
              Feb 22 '11 at 19:44










            • $begingroup$
              Of course, the derivative of $(x-lfloor xrfloor)cdot x$ is $2x-lfloor xrfloor$ when the derivative is defined, so the value you'd get is $2x$ if you took the continuous version.
              $endgroup$
              – Thomas Andrews
              May 16 '17 at 20:30











            • $begingroup$
              "You cannot take the derivative with respect to x of x + x + x + ... (repeated x times) one term at a time because the number of terms depends on x."-@issac i really loved this statement...but could you please explain about it a bit more?
              $endgroup$
              – Rangan Aryan
              Mar 25 at 4:19















            58












            $begingroup$

            You cannot take the derivative with respect to x of x + x + x + ... (repeated x times) one term at a time because the number of terms depends on x.



            Even beyond that, if you can express x2 as x + x + x + ... (repeated x times), then x must be an integer and if the domain of the expression is the integers, (continuous) differentiation does not make sense and/or the derivatives do not exist.



            (edit: I gave my first reason first because the second reason can be smoothed over by taking "repeated x times" to mean something like $undersetlfloor xrfloormathrm addendsunderbracex+x+cdots+x+(x-lfloor xrfloor)cdot x$.)






            share|cite|improve this answer











            $endgroup$








            • 23




              $begingroup$
              A simpler version: 1+1+...+1 repeated x times = x. Now you can see that the left hand side is obviously not constant with respect to x.
              $endgroup$
              – Jules
              Feb 22 '11 at 19:44










            • $begingroup$
              Of course, the derivative of $(x-lfloor xrfloor)cdot x$ is $2x-lfloor xrfloor$ when the derivative is defined, so the value you'd get is $2x$ if you took the continuous version.
              $endgroup$
              – Thomas Andrews
              May 16 '17 at 20:30











            • $begingroup$
              "You cannot take the derivative with respect to x of x + x + x + ... (repeated x times) one term at a time because the number of terms depends on x."-@issac i really loved this statement...but could you please explain about it a bit more?
              $endgroup$
              – Rangan Aryan
              Mar 25 at 4:19













            58












            58








            58





            $begingroup$

            You cannot take the derivative with respect to x of x + x + x + ... (repeated x times) one term at a time because the number of terms depends on x.



            Even beyond that, if you can express x2 as x + x + x + ... (repeated x times), then x must be an integer and if the domain of the expression is the integers, (continuous) differentiation does not make sense and/or the derivatives do not exist.



            (edit: I gave my first reason first because the second reason can be smoothed over by taking "repeated x times" to mean something like $undersetlfloor xrfloormathrm addendsunderbracex+x+cdots+x+(x-lfloor xrfloor)cdot x$.)






            share|cite|improve this answer











            $endgroup$



            You cannot take the derivative with respect to x of x + x + x + ... (repeated x times) one term at a time because the number of terms depends on x.



            Even beyond that, if you can express x2 as x + x + x + ... (repeated x times), then x must be an integer and if the domain of the expression is the integers, (continuous) differentiation does not make sense and/or the derivatives do not exist.



            (edit: I gave my first reason first because the second reason can be smoothed over by taking "repeated x times" to mean something like $undersetlfloor xrfloormathrm addendsunderbracex+x+cdots+x+(x-lfloor xrfloor)cdot x$.)







            share|cite|improve this answer














            share|cite|improve this answer



            share|cite|improve this answer








            edited Aug 5 '10 at 18:40

























            answered Jul 29 '10 at 2:47









            IsaacIsaac

            30.1k1285128




            30.1k1285128







            • 23




              $begingroup$
              A simpler version: 1+1+...+1 repeated x times = x. Now you can see that the left hand side is obviously not constant with respect to x.
              $endgroup$
              – Jules
              Feb 22 '11 at 19:44










            • $begingroup$
              Of course, the derivative of $(x-lfloor xrfloor)cdot x$ is $2x-lfloor xrfloor$ when the derivative is defined, so the value you'd get is $2x$ if you took the continuous version.
              $endgroup$
              – Thomas Andrews
              May 16 '17 at 20:30











            • $begingroup$
              "You cannot take the derivative with respect to x of x + x + x + ... (repeated x times) one term at a time because the number of terms depends on x."-@issac i really loved this statement...but could you please explain about it a bit more?
              $endgroup$
              – Rangan Aryan
              Mar 25 at 4:19












            • 23




              $begingroup$
              A simpler version: 1+1+...+1 repeated x times = x. Now you can see that the left hand side is obviously not constant with respect to x.
              $endgroup$
              – Jules
              Feb 22 '11 at 19:44










            • $begingroup$
              Of course, the derivative of $(x-lfloor xrfloor)cdot x$ is $2x-lfloor xrfloor$ when the derivative is defined, so the value you'd get is $2x$ if you took the continuous version.
              $endgroup$
              – Thomas Andrews
              May 16 '17 at 20:30











            • $begingroup$
              "You cannot take the derivative with respect to x of x + x + x + ... (repeated x times) one term at a time because the number of terms depends on x."-@issac i really loved this statement...but could you please explain about it a bit more?
              $endgroup$
              – Rangan Aryan
              Mar 25 at 4:19







            23




            23




            $begingroup$
            A simpler version: 1+1+...+1 repeated x times = x. Now you can see that the left hand side is obviously not constant with respect to x.
            $endgroup$
            – Jules
            Feb 22 '11 at 19:44




            $begingroup$
            A simpler version: 1+1+...+1 repeated x times = x. Now you can see that the left hand side is obviously not constant with respect to x.
            $endgroup$
            – Jules
            Feb 22 '11 at 19:44












            $begingroup$
            Of course, the derivative of $(x-lfloor xrfloor)cdot x$ is $2x-lfloor xrfloor$ when the derivative is defined, so the value you'd get is $2x$ if you took the continuous version.
            $endgroup$
            – Thomas Andrews
            May 16 '17 at 20:30





            $begingroup$
            Of course, the derivative of $(x-lfloor xrfloor)cdot x$ is $2x-lfloor xrfloor$ when the derivative is defined, so the value you'd get is $2x$ if you took the continuous version.
            $endgroup$
            – Thomas Andrews
            May 16 '17 at 20:30













            $begingroup$
            "You cannot take the derivative with respect to x of x + x + x + ... (repeated x times) one term at a time because the number of terms depends on x."-@issac i really loved this statement...but could you please explain about it a bit more?
            $endgroup$
            – Rangan Aryan
            Mar 25 at 4:19




            $begingroup$
            "You cannot take the derivative with respect to x of x + x + x + ... (repeated x times) one term at a time because the number of terms depends on x."-@issac i really loved this statement...but could you please explain about it a bit more?
            $endgroup$
            – Rangan Aryan
            Mar 25 at 4:19











            96












            $begingroup$

            I think the discrete/continuous issue is sort of a red herring. To me, the problem is forgetting to use the chain rule!



            To un-discretize, think of the function $F(u,v) = uv$, which we could think of as $u + dots + u$, $v$ times. Then $x^2 = F(x,x)$. Differentiating both sides gives $2x = F_u(x,x) + F_v(x,x)$, which is perfectly true. In the fallacious example, the problem is essentially that the $F_v$ term has been omitted. In some sense, one has forgotten to differentiate the operation "$x$ times" with respect to $x$! Of course, the notation makes this easier to do.






            share|cite|improve this answer









            $endgroup$








            • 12




              $begingroup$
              This is a nice explanation.
              $endgroup$
              – Matt E
              Aug 11 '10 at 4:35






            • 1




              $begingroup$
              I side with you on this one. I answered a similar thing here
              $endgroup$
              – Pedro Tamaroff
              Jul 27 '12 at 2:41















            96












            $begingroup$

            I think the discrete/continuous issue is sort of a red herring. To me, the problem is forgetting to use the chain rule!



            To un-discretize, think of the function $F(u,v) = uv$, which we could think of as $u + dots + u$, $v$ times. Then $x^2 = F(x,x)$. Differentiating both sides gives $2x = F_u(x,x) + F_v(x,x)$, which is perfectly true. In the fallacious example, the problem is essentially that the $F_v$ term has been omitted. In some sense, one has forgotten to differentiate the operation "$x$ times" with respect to $x$! Of course, the notation makes this easier to do.






            share|cite|improve this answer









            $endgroup$








            • 12




              $begingroup$
              This is a nice explanation.
              $endgroup$
              – Matt E
              Aug 11 '10 at 4:35






            • 1




              $begingroup$
              I side with you on this one. I answered a similar thing here
              $endgroup$
              – Pedro Tamaroff
              Jul 27 '12 at 2:41













            96












            96








            96





            $begingroup$

            I think the discrete/continuous issue is sort of a red herring. To me, the problem is forgetting to use the chain rule!



            To un-discretize, think of the function $F(u,v) = uv$, which we could think of as $u + dots + u$, $v$ times. Then $x^2 = F(x,x)$. Differentiating both sides gives $2x = F_u(x,x) + F_v(x,x)$, which is perfectly true. In the fallacious example, the problem is essentially that the $F_v$ term has been omitted. In some sense, one has forgotten to differentiate the operation "$x$ times" with respect to $x$! Of course, the notation makes this easier to do.






            share|cite|improve this answer









            $endgroup$



            I think the discrete/continuous issue is sort of a red herring. To me, the problem is forgetting to use the chain rule!



            To un-discretize, think of the function $F(u,v) = uv$, which we could think of as $u + dots + u$, $v$ times. Then $x^2 = F(x,x)$. Differentiating both sides gives $2x = F_u(x,x) + F_v(x,x)$, which is perfectly true. In the fallacious example, the problem is essentially that the $F_v$ term has been omitted. In some sense, one has forgotten to differentiate the operation "$x$ times" with respect to $x$! Of course, the notation makes this easier to do.







            share|cite|improve this answer












            share|cite|improve this answer



            share|cite|improve this answer










            answered Aug 11 '10 at 4:24









            Nate EldredgeNate Eldredge

            64.5k682174




            64.5k682174







            • 12




              $begingroup$
              This is a nice explanation.
              $endgroup$
              – Matt E
              Aug 11 '10 at 4:35






            • 1




              $begingroup$
              I side with you on this one. I answered a similar thing here
              $endgroup$
              – Pedro Tamaroff
              Jul 27 '12 at 2:41












            • 12




              $begingroup$
              This is a nice explanation.
              $endgroup$
              – Matt E
              Aug 11 '10 at 4:35






            • 1




              $begingroup$
              I side with you on this one. I answered a similar thing here
              $endgroup$
              – Pedro Tamaroff
              Jul 27 '12 at 2:41







            12




            12




            $begingroup$
            This is a nice explanation.
            $endgroup$
            – Matt E
            Aug 11 '10 at 4:35




            $begingroup$
            This is a nice explanation.
            $endgroup$
            – Matt E
            Aug 11 '10 at 4:35




            1




            1




            $begingroup$
            I side with you on this one. I answered a similar thing here
            $endgroup$
            – Pedro Tamaroff
            Jul 27 '12 at 2:41




            $begingroup$
            I side with you on this one. I answered a similar thing here
            $endgroup$
            – Pedro Tamaroff
            Jul 27 '12 at 2:41











            12












            $begingroup$

            Here's my explanation from an old sci.math post:




            Zachary Turner wrote on 26 Jul 2002:




            Let D = d/dx = derivative wrt x. Then



            D[x^2] = D[x + x + ... + x (x times)]
            = D[x] + D[x] + ... + D[x] (x times)
            = 1 + 1 + ... + 1 (x times)
            = x



            An obvious analogous fallacious argument proves both



            • $ $ D[x f(x)] = Df(x) (x times) = x Df(x)


            • $ $ D[x f(x)] = Dx (f(x) times) = f(x), via Dx = 1


            vs. the correct result: their sum $rm:f(x) + x, Df(x):$
            as given by the Leibniz product rule (= chain rule for times).
            The error arises from overlooking the dependence upon x in both
            arguments of the product $rm: x f(x):$ when applying the chain rule.



            The source of the error becomes clearer if we consider a
            discrete analog. This will also eliminate any tangential
            concerns on the meaning of "(x times)" for non-integer x.
            Namely, we consider the shift operator $rm S:, n to n+1 $ on polynomials $rm:p(n):$ with integer coefficients, where $rm:S p(n) = p(n+1).:$ Here is a similar fallacy



             S[n^2] = S[n + n + ... + n (n times)]
            = S[n] + S[n] + ... + S[n] (n times)
            = 1+n + 1+n + ... + 1+n (n times)
            = (1+n)n


            But correct is $rm S[n^2] = (n+1)^2.:$ Here the "product rule" is
            $rm S[fg] = S[f], S[g], $ not $rm: S[f] g:$ as above.



            The fallacy actually boils down to operator noncommutativity.
            On the space of functions $rm:f(x),:$ consider "x" as the linear
            operator of multiplication by x, so $rm x:, f(x) to x f(x).:$ Then
            the linear operators $rm:D:$ and $rm:x:$ generate an operator algebra
            of polynomials $rm:p(x,D):$ in NON-commutative indeterminates $rm:x,D:$
            since we have



             (Dx)[f] = D[xf] = xD[f] + f = (xD+1)[f], so Dx = xD + 1 ≠ xD

            (Sn)[f] = S[nf] = (n+1)S[f], so Sn = (n+1)S ≠ nS


            This view reveals the error as mistakenly
            assuming commutativity of the operators $rm:x,D:$ or $rm:n,S.$



            Perhaps something to ponder on boring commutes !






            share|cite|improve this answer











            $endgroup$

















              12












              $begingroup$

              Here's my explanation from an old sci.math post:




              Zachary Turner wrote on 26 Jul 2002:




              Let D = d/dx = derivative wrt x. Then



              D[x^2] = D[x + x + ... + x (x times)]
              = D[x] + D[x] + ... + D[x] (x times)
              = 1 + 1 + ... + 1 (x times)
              = x



              An obvious analogous fallacious argument proves both



              • $ $ D[x f(x)] = Df(x) (x times) = x Df(x)


              • $ $ D[x f(x)] = Dx (f(x) times) = f(x), via Dx = 1


              vs. the correct result: their sum $rm:f(x) + x, Df(x):$
              as given by the Leibniz product rule (= chain rule for times).
              The error arises from overlooking the dependence upon x in both
              arguments of the product $rm: x f(x):$ when applying the chain rule.



              The source of the error becomes clearer if we consider a
              discrete analog. This will also eliminate any tangential
              concerns on the meaning of "(x times)" for non-integer x.
              Namely, we consider the shift operator $rm S:, n to n+1 $ on polynomials $rm:p(n):$ with integer coefficients, where $rm:S p(n) = p(n+1).:$ Here is a similar fallacy



               S[n^2] = S[n + n + ... + n (n times)]
              = S[n] + S[n] + ... + S[n] (n times)
              = 1+n + 1+n + ... + 1+n (n times)
              = (1+n)n


              But correct is $rm S[n^2] = (n+1)^2.:$ Here the "product rule" is
              $rm S[fg] = S[f], S[g], $ not $rm: S[f] g:$ as above.



              The fallacy actually boils down to operator noncommutativity.
              On the space of functions $rm:f(x),:$ consider "x" as the linear
              operator of multiplication by x, so $rm x:, f(x) to x f(x).:$ Then
              the linear operators $rm:D:$ and $rm:x:$ generate an operator algebra
              of polynomials $rm:p(x,D):$ in NON-commutative indeterminates $rm:x,D:$
              since we have



               (Dx)[f] = D[xf] = xD[f] + f = (xD+1)[f], so Dx = xD + 1 ≠ xD

              (Sn)[f] = S[nf] = (n+1)S[f], so Sn = (n+1)S ≠ nS


              This view reveals the error as mistakenly
              assuming commutativity of the operators $rm:x,D:$ or $rm:n,S.$



              Perhaps something to ponder on boring commutes !






              share|cite|improve this answer











              $endgroup$















                12












                12








                12





                $begingroup$

                Here's my explanation from an old sci.math post:




                Zachary Turner wrote on 26 Jul 2002:




                Let D = d/dx = derivative wrt x. Then



                D[x^2] = D[x + x + ... + x (x times)]
                = D[x] + D[x] + ... + D[x] (x times)
                = 1 + 1 + ... + 1 (x times)
                = x



                An obvious analogous fallacious argument proves both



                • $ $ D[x f(x)] = Df(x) (x times) = x Df(x)


                • $ $ D[x f(x)] = Dx (f(x) times) = f(x), via Dx = 1


                vs. the correct result: their sum $rm:f(x) + x, Df(x):$
                as given by the Leibniz product rule (= chain rule for times).
                The error arises from overlooking the dependence upon x in both
                arguments of the product $rm: x f(x):$ when applying the chain rule.



                The source of the error becomes clearer if we consider a
                discrete analog. This will also eliminate any tangential
                concerns on the meaning of "(x times)" for non-integer x.
                Namely, we consider the shift operator $rm S:, n to n+1 $ on polynomials $rm:p(n):$ with integer coefficients, where $rm:S p(n) = p(n+1).:$ Here is a similar fallacy



                 S[n^2] = S[n + n + ... + n (n times)]
                = S[n] + S[n] + ... + S[n] (n times)
                = 1+n + 1+n + ... + 1+n (n times)
                = (1+n)n


                But correct is $rm S[n^2] = (n+1)^2.:$ Here the "product rule" is
                $rm S[fg] = S[f], S[g], $ not $rm: S[f] g:$ as above.



                The fallacy actually boils down to operator noncommutativity.
                On the space of functions $rm:f(x),:$ consider "x" as the linear
                operator of multiplication by x, so $rm x:, f(x) to x f(x).:$ Then
                the linear operators $rm:D:$ and $rm:x:$ generate an operator algebra
                of polynomials $rm:p(x,D):$ in NON-commutative indeterminates $rm:x,D:$
                since we have



                 (Dx)[f] = D[xf] = xD[f] + f = (xD+1)[f], so Dx = xD + 1 ≠ xD

                (Sn)[f] = S[nf] = (n+1)S[f], so Sn = (n+1)S ≠ nS


                This view reveals the error as mistakenly
                assuming commutativity of the operators $rm:x,D:$ or $rm:n,S.$



                Perhaps something to ponder on boring commutes !






                share|cite|improve this answer











                $endgroup$



                Here's my explanation from an old sci.math post:




                Zachary Turner wrote on 26 Jul 2002:




                Let D = d/dx = derivative wrt x. Then



                D[x^2] = D[x + x + ... + x (x times)]
                = D[x] + D[x] + ... + D[x] (x times)
                = 1 + 1 + ... + 1 (x times)
                = x



                An obvious analogous fallacious argument proves both



                • $ $ D[x f(x)] = Df(x) (x times) = x Df(x)


                • $ $ D[x f(x)] = Dx (f(x) times) = f(x), via Dx = 1


                vs. the correct result: their sum $rm:f(x) + x, Df(x):$
                as given by the Leibniz product rule (= chain rule for times).
                The error arises from overlooking the dependence upon x in both
                arguments of the product $rm: x f(x):$ when applying the chain rule.



                The source of the error becomes clearer if we consider a
                discrete analog. This will also eliminate any tangential
                concerns on the meaning of "(x times)" for non-integer x.
                Namely, we consider the shift operator $rm S:, n to n+1 $ on polynomials $rm:p(n):$ with integer coefficients, where $rm:S p(n) = p(n+1).:$ Here is a similar fallacy



                 S[n^2] = S[n + n + ... + n (n times)]
                = S[n] + S[n] + ... + S[n] (n times)
                = 1+n + 1+n + ... + 1+n (n times)
                = (1+n)n


                But correct is $rm S[n^2] = (n+1)^2.:$ Here the "product rule" is
                $rm S[fg] = S[f], S[g], $ not $rm: S[f] g:$ as above.



                The fallacy actually boils down to operator noncommutativity.
                On the space of functions $rm:f(x),:$ consider "x" as the linear
                operator of multiplication by x, so $rm x:, f(x) to x f(x).:$ Then
                the linear operators $rm:D:$ and $rm:x:$ generate an operator algebra
                of polynomials $rm:p(x,D):$ in NON-commutative indeterminates $rm:x,D:$
                since we have



                 (Dx)[f] = D[xf] = xD[f] + f = (xD+1)[f], so Dx = xD + 1 ≠ xD

                (Sn)[f] = S[nf] = (n+1)S[f], so Sn = (n+1)S ≠ nS


                This view reveals the error as mistakenly
                assuming commutativity of the operators $rm:x,D:$ or $rm:n,S.$



                Perhaps something to ponder on boring commutes !







                share|cite|improve this answer














                share|cite|improve this answer



                share|cite|improve this answer








                edited Mar 27 '13 at 16:27







                user23500

















                answered Jul 29 '10 at 3:28









                Bill DubuqueBill Dubuque

                213k29196654




                213k29196654





















                    9












                    $begingroup$

                    You cannot differentiate the LHS of your equation




                    $x + x + x + cdots$ (repeated $x$ times) = $x^2$




                    This is because the LHS is not a continuous function; the number of terms depends on $x$ so the LHS is not well defined when $x$ is not an integer. We can only differentiate continuous functions, so this is not valid.






                    share|cite|improve this answer











                    $endgroup$








                    • 9




                      $begingroup$
                      The problem is not so much that the LHS is not continuous: it is defined on a discrete set (so in particular it is continuous!).
                      $endgroup$
                      – Mariano Suárez-Álvarez
                      Jul 29 '10 at 3:00















                    9












                    $begingroup$

                    You cannot differentiate the LHS of your equation




                    $x + x + x + cdots$ (repeated $x$ times) = $x^2$




                    This is because the LHS is not a continuous function; the number of terms depends on $x$ so the LHS is not well defined when $x$ is not an integer. We can only differentiate continuous functions, so this is not valid.






                    share|cite|improve this answer











                    $endgroup$








                    • 9




                      $begingroup$
                      The problem is not so much that the LHS is not continuous: it is defined on a discrete set (so in particular it is continuous!).
                      $endgroup$
                      – Mariano Suárez-Álvarez
                      Jul 29 '10 at 3:00













                    9












                    9








                    9





                    $begingroup$

                    You cannot differentiate the LHS of your equation




                    $x + x + x + cdots$ (repeated $x$ times) = $x^2$




                    This is because the LHS is not a continuous function; the number of terms depends on $x$ so the LHS is not well defined when $x$ is not an integer. We can only differentiate continuous functions, so this is not valid.






                    share|cite|improve this answer











                    $endgroup$



                    You cannot differentiate the LHS of your equation




                    $x + x + x + cdots$ (repeated $x$ times) = $x^2$




                    This is because the LHS is not a continuous function; the number of terms depends on $x$ so the LHS is not well defined when $x$ is not an integer. We can only differentiate continuous functions, so this is not valid.







                    share|cite|improve this answer














                    share|cite|improve this answer



                    share|cite|improve this answer








                    edited Sep 25 '18 at 3:58









                    Larry

                    2,53031131




                    2,53031131










                    answered Jul 29 '10 at 2:50









                    Moor XuMoor Xu

                    1,84022125




                    1,84022125







                    • 9




                      $begingroup$
                      The problem is not so much that the LHS is not continuous: it is defined on a discrete set (so in particular it is continuous!).
                      $endgroup$
                      – Mariano Suárez-Álvarez
                      Jul 29 '10 at 3:00












                    • 9




                      $begingroup$
                      The problem is not so much that the LHS is not continuous: it is defined on a discrete set (so in particular it is continuous!).
                      $endgroup$
                      – Mariano Suárez-Álvarez
                      Jul 29 '10 at 3:00







                    9




                    9




                    $begingroup$
                    The problem is not so much that the LHS is not continuous: it is defined on a discrete set (so in particular it is continuous!).
                    $endgroup$
                    – Mariano Suárez-Álvarez
                    Jul 29 '10 at 3:00




                    $begingroup$
                    The problem is not so much that the LHS is not continuous: it is defined on a discrete set (so in particular it is continuous!).
                    $endgroup$
                    – Mariano Suárez-Álvarez
                    Jul 29 '10 at 3:00











                    8












                    $begingroup$

                    We can create the same "paradox" with finite differences over integers.



                    Given $f: mathbb Z to mathbb Z$ define the "discrete derivative"
                    $$
                    Delta f (n)=f(n+1)-f(n)
                    $$
                    we have the following obvious "theorems":



                    • $Delta(n)=n+1-n=1$

                    • $Delta(n^2)=(n+1)^2-n^2=2n+1$

                    • $Delta (f_1+cdots +f_k)=Delta f_1 + cdots +Delta f_k$

                    • $f(n)=g(n) ; forall n quad implies quad Delta f(n)=Delta g(n) ; forall n$

                    So we can start with the correct equality:



                    $$
                    underbracen + n + n + ldots + n_n textrm times= n^2
                    $$



                    and we apply $Delta$ on both sides taking advantage from the "theorems" above: we get
                    $$
                    underbrace1 + 1 + 1 + ldots + 1_n textrm times = 2n+1
                    $$
                    so we conclude $n=2n+1$ and we have the paradox.



                    Here maybe the mistake is more clear: the rule $Delta (f_1+cdots +f_k)=Delta f_1 + cdots +Delta f_k$ doesn't work when $k$ is a function (of the same variable of the $f_i$), in fact it amounts to do a computation like this:
                    $$
                    Delta(underbracen + ldots + n_n textrm times)=
                    underbrace(n+1) + ldots + (n+1)_colorRedn textrm times-(underbracen + ldots + n_n textrm times)=n
                    $$
                    that is wrong, the right way being this:
                    $$
                    Delta(underbracen + ldots + n_n textrm times)=
                    underbrace(n+1) + ldots + (n+1)_colorGreen(n+1) textrm times-(underbracen + ldots + n_n textrm times)=n+(n+1).
                    $$






                    share|cite|improve this answer











                    $endgroup$

















                      8












                      $begingroup$

                      We can create the same "paradox" with finite differences over integers.



                      Given $f: mathbb Z to mathbb Z$ define the "discrete derivative"
                      $$
                      Delta f (n)=f(n+1)-f(n)
                      $$
                      we have the following obvious "theorems":



                      • $Delta(n)=n+1-n=1$

                      • $Delta(n^2)=(n+1)^2-n^2=2n+1$

                      • $Delta (f_1+cdots +f_k)=Delta f_1 + cdots +Delta f_k$

                      • $f(n)=g(n) ; forall n quad implies quad Delta f(n)=Delta g(n) ; forall n$

                      So we can start with the correct equality:



                      $$
                      underbracen + n + n + ldots + n_n textrm times= n^2
                      $$



                      and we apply $Delta$ on both sides taking advantage from the "theorems" above: we get
                      $$
                      underbrace1 + 1 + 1 + ldots + 1_n textrm times = 2n+1
                      $$
                      so we conclude $n=2n+1$ and we have the paradox.



                      Here maybe the mistake is more clear: the rule $Delta (f_1+cdots +f_k)=Delta f_1 + cdots +Delta f_k$ doesn't work when $k$ is a function (of the same variable of the $f_i$), in fact it amounts to do a computation like this:
                      $$
                      Delta(underbracen + ldots + n_n textrm times)=
                      underbrace(n+1) + ldots + (n+1)_colorRedn textrm times-(underbracen + ldots + n_n textrm times)=n
                      $$
                      that is wrong, the right way being this:
                      $$
                      Delta(underbracen + ldots + n_n textrm times)=
                      underbrace(n+1) + ldots + (n+1)_colorGreen(n+1) textrm times-(underbracen + ldots + n_n textrm times)=n+(n+1).
                      $$






                      share|cite|improve this answer











                      $endgroup$















                        8












                        8








                        8





                        $begingroup$

                        We can create the same "paradox" with finite differences over integers.



                        Given $f: mathbb Z to mathbb Z$ define the "discrete derivative"
                        $$
                        Delta f (n)=f(n+1)-f(n)
                        $$
                        we have the following obvious "theorems":



                        • $Delta(n)=n+1-n=1$

                        • $Delta(n^2)=(n+1)^2-n^2=2n+1$

                        • $Delta (f_1+cdots +f_k)=Delta f_1 + cdots +Delta f_k$

                        • $f(n)=g(n) ; forall n quad implies quad Delta f(n)=Delta g(n) ; forall n$

                        So we can start with the correct equality:



                        $$
                        underbracen + n + n + ldots + n_n textrm times= n^2
                        $$



                        and we apply $Delta$ on both sides taking advantage from the "theorems" above: we get
                        $$
                        underbrace1 + 1 + 1 + ldots + 1_n textrm times = 2n+1
                        $$
                        so we conclude $n=2n+1$ and we have the paradox.



                        Here maybe the mistake is more clear: the rule $Delta (f_1+cdots +f_k)=Delta f_1 + cdots +Delta f_k$ doesn't work when $k$ is a function (of the same variable of the $f_i$), in fact it amounts to do a computation like this:
                        $$
                        Delta(underbracen + ldots + n_n textrm times)=
                        underbrace(n+1) + ldots + (n+1)_colorRedn textrm times-(underbracen + ldots + n_n textrm times)=n
                        $$
                        that is wrong, the right way being this:
                        $$
                        Delta(underbracen + ldots + n_n textrm times)=
                        underbrace(n+1) + ldots + (n+1)_colorGreen(n+1) textrm times-(underbracen + ldots + n_n textrm times)=n+(n+1).
                        $$






                        share|cite|improve this answer











                        $endgroup$



                        We can create the same "paradox" with finite differences over integers.



                        Given $f: mathbb Z to mathbb Z$ define the "discrete derivative"
                        $$
                        Delta f (n)=f(n+1)-f(n)
                        $$
                        we have the following obvious "theorems":



                        • $Delta(n)=n+1-n=1$

                        • $Delta(n^2)=(n+1)^2-n^2=2n+1$

                        • $Delta (f_1+cdots +f_k)=Delta f_1 + cdots +Delta f_k$

                        • $f(n)=g(n) ; forall n quad implies quad Delta f(n)=Delta g(n) ; forall n$

                        So we can start with the correct equality:



                        $$
                        underbracen + n + n + ldots + n_n textrm times= n^2
                        $$



                        and we apply $Delta$ on both sides taking advantage from the "theorems" above: we get
                        $$
                        underbrace1 + 1 + 1 + ldots + 1_n textrm times = 2n+1
                        $$
                        so we conclude $n=2n+1$ and we have the paradox.



                        Here maybe the mistake is more clear: the rule $Delta (f_1+cdots +f_k)=Delta f_1 + cdots +Delta f_k$ doesn't work when $k$ is a function (of the same variable of the $f_i$), in fact it amounts to do a computation like this:
                        $$
                        Delta(underbracen + ldots + n_n textrm times)=
                        underbrace(n+1) + ldots + (n+1)_colorRedn textrm times-(underbracen + ldots + n_n textrm times)=n
                        $$
                        that is wrong, the right way being this:
                        $$
                        Delta(underbracen + ldots + n_n textrm times)=
                        underbrace(n+1) + ldots + (n+1)_colorGreen(n+1) textrm times-(underbracen + ldots + n_n textrm times)=n+(n+1).
                        $$







                        share|cite|improve this answer














                        share|cite|improve this answer



                        share|cite|improve this answer








                        edited Jun 1 '18 at 17:41

























                        answered Mar 10 '16 at 8:51









                        Marco DisceMarco Disce

                        1,3991217




                        1,3991217





















                            4












                            $begingroup$

                            Lets define what is x+x+x+... x times for x - real. Natural definition is x+x+x.. := x*x (note - just the same as Isaac has wrote in his edit).



                            Suppose we want left our initial definition as is. We don't know what is x+x+.. repeat x times for x - real (and note we don't have rule how to obtain derivative from such func). So lets use definition of derivative. f(x):=x+x+x.. repeat x times, Df(x)=(f(x+h)-f(x))/h, h->0. Df(x)=((x+h+x+h+x+h.. repeat x+h times) - (x+x+x.. repeat x times))/h, h->0. Suppose x+x+... repeat a+b times := (x+x+.. repeat a times) + (x+x+.. repeat b times) we have Df(x)=((x+h+x+h+x+h.. repeat x times) - (x+x+x.. repeat x times) + (x+h+x+h+x+h.. repeat h times))/h, h->0, Df(x)=((h+h+h.. repeat x times) + (x+h+x+h+x+h.. repeat h times))/h, h->0, or Df(x)=(1+1+1.. repeat x times) + (x+h+x+h+x+h.. repeat 1 times), h->0 and at last Df(x)=x + x+h, h->0 = 2x






                            share|cite|improve this answer









                            $endgroup$

















                              4












                              $begingroup$

                              Lets define what is x+x+x+... x times for x - real. Natural definition is x+x+x.. := x*x (note - just the same as Isaac has wrote in his edit).



                              Suppose we want left our initial definition as is. We don't know what is x+x+.. repeat x times for x - real (and note we don't have rule how to obtain derivative from such func). So lets use definition of derivative. f(x):=x+x+x.. repeat x times, Df(x)=(f(x+h)-f(x))/h, h->0. Df(x)=((x+h+x+h+x+h.. repeat x+h times) - (x+x+x.. repeat x times))/h, h->0. Suppose x+x+... repeat a+b times := (x+x+.. repeat a times) + (x+x+.. repeat b times) we have Df(x)=((x+h+x+h+x+h.. repeat x times) - (x+x+x.. repeat x times) + (x+h+x+h+x+h.. repeat h times))/h, h->0, Df(x)=((h+h+h.. repeat x times) + (x+h+x+h+x+h.. repeat h times))/h, h->0, or Df(x)=(1+1+1.. repeat x times) + (x+h+x+h+x+h.. repeat 1 times), h->0 and at last Df(x)=x + x+h, h->0 = 2x






                              share|cite|improve this answer









                              $endgroup$















                                4












                                4








                                4





                                $begingroup$

                                Lets define what is x+x+x+... x times for x - real. Natural definition is x+x+x.. := x*x (note - just the same as Isaac has wrote in his edit).



                                Suppose we want left our initial definition as is. We don't know what is x+x+.. repeat x times for x - real (and note we don't have rule how to obtain derivative from such func). So lets use definition of derivative. f(x):=x+x+x.. repeat x times, Df(x)=(f(x+h)-f(x))/h, h->0. Df(x)=((x+h+x+h+x+h.. repeat x+h times) - (x+x+x.. repeat x times))/h, h->0. Suppose x+x+... repeat a+b times := (x+x+.. repeat a times) + (x+x+.. repeat b times) we have Df(x)=((x+h+x+h+x+h.. repeat x times) - (x+x+x.. repeat x times) + (x+h+x+h+x+h.. repeat h times))/h, h->0, Df(x)=((h+h+h.. repeat x times) + (x+h+x+h+x+h.. repeat h times))/h, h->0, or Df(x)=(1+1+1.. repeat x times) + (x+h+x+h+x+h.. repeat 1 times), h->0 and at last Df(x)=x + x+h, h->0 = 2x






                                share|cite|improve this answer









                                $endgroup$



                                Lets define what is x+x+x+... x times for x - real. Natural definition is x+x+x.. := x*x (note - just the same as Isaac has wrote in his edit).



                                Suppose we want left our initial definition as is. We don't know what is x+x+.. repeat x times for x - real (and note we don't have rule how to obtain derivative from such func). So lets use definition of derivative. f(x):=x+x+x.. repeat x times, Df(x)=(f(x+h)-f(x))/h, h->0. Df(x)=((x+h+x+h+x+h.. repeat x+h times) - (x+x+x.. repeat x times))/h, h->0. Suppose x+x+... repeat a+b times := (x+x+.. repeat a times) + (x+x+.. repeat b times) we have Df(x)=((x+h+x+h+x+h.. repeat x times) - (x+x+x.. repeat x times) + (x+h+x+h+x+h.. repeat h times))/h, h->0, Df(x)=((h+h+h.. repeat x times) + (x+h+x+h+x+h.. repeat h times))/h, h->0, or Df(x)=(1+1+1.. repeat x times) + (x+h+x+h+x+h.. repeat 1 times), h->0 and at last Df(x)=x + x+h, h->0 = 2x







                                share|cite|improve this answer












                                share|cite|improve this answer



                                share|cite|improve this answer










                                answered Aug 10 '10 at 22:53









                                arena-ruarena-ru

                                20912




                                20912





















                                    3












                                    $begingroup$

                                    There is the sum rule in differentiation:
                                    $$(f_1(x)+f_2(x)+...+f_k(x))'=f_1'(x)+f_2'(x)+...+f_k'(x),$$ where $k$ is any positive integer number.

                                    We can not use this rule to take the derivative of LHS, because $x$ in "$x$ times" is not a number, it is a variable, like in "function $f(x)$".






                                    share|cite|improve this answer











                                    $endgroup$

















                                      3












                                      $begingroup$

                                      There is the sum rule in differentiation:
                                      $$(f_1(x)+f_2(x)+...+f_k(x))'=f_1'(x)+f_2'(x)+...+f_k'(x),$$ where $k$ is any positive integer number.

                                      We can not use this rule to take the derivative of LHS, because $x$ in "$x$ times" is not a number, it is a variable, like in "function $f(x)$".






                                      share|cite|improve this answer











                                      $endgroup$















                                        3












                                        3








                                        3





                                        $begingroup$

                                        There is the sum rule in differentiation:
                                        $$(f_1(x)+f_2(x)+...+f_k(x))'=f_1'(x)+f_2'(x)+...+f_k'(x),$$ where $k$ is any positive integer number.

                                        We can not use this rule to take the derivative of LHS, because $x$ in "$x$ times" is not a number, it is a variable, like in "function $f(x)$".






                                        share|cite|improve this answer











                                        $endgroup$



                                        There is the sum rule in differentiation:
                                        $$(f_1(x)+f_2(x)+...+f_k(x))'=f_1'(x)+f_2'(x)+...+f_k'(x),$$ where $k$ is any positive integer number.

                                        We can not use this rule to take the derivative of LHS, because $x$ in "$x$ times" is not a number, it is a variable, like in "function $f(x)$".







                                        share|cite|improve this answer














                                        share|cite|improve this answer



                                        share|cite|improve this answer








                                        edited Sep 13 '15 at 17:43

























                                        answered Sep 12 '15 at 18:32









                                        Julja MuvvJulja Muvv

                                        292




                                        292





















                                            -1












                                            $begingroup$

                                            The problem is that the equation $x + cdots + x = x^2$ only holds for two values of $x$, namely if you added $x$ with itself $n$ times, it holds at $x=0$ and $x=n$. Therefore your equation becomes $nx = x^2$, the differential is $n = 2x$ (the number of terms in the LHS of the equation should not depend on the real/complex parameter $x$) and the only thing you can deduce from this is that the first equation is equivalent to $x^2 - nx = x(x-n) = 0$ and the second equation is $x=n/2$, so when $x=0$ or $x=n$ then the sum of the $x$'s and $x^2$ are equal, and when $x=n/2$ the derivative of the sum and $x^2$ are equal. The deduction that $1=2$ is simply not true. The equality $nx = x^2$ is not comparable to an equality like $sin x^2 = 1 - cos x^2$ : the equation $nx = x^2$ holds for only two values of $x$, where as the trigonometric equation holds for any real/complex value of $x$.



                                            Hope that helps,






                                            share|cite|improve this answer









                                            $endgroup$

















                                              -1












                                              $begingroup$

                                              The problem is that the equation $x + cdots + x = x^2$ only holds for two values of $x$, namely if you added $x$ with itself $n$ times, it holds at $x=0$ and $x=n$. Therefore your equation becomes $nx = x^2$, the differential is $n = 2x$ (the number of terms in the LHS of the equation should not depend on the real/complex parameter $x$) and the only thing you can deduce from this is that the first equation is equivalent to $x^2 - nx = x(x-n) = 0$ and the second equation is $x=n/2$, so when $x=0$ or $x=n$ then the sum of the $x$'s and $x^2$ are equal, and when $x=n/2$ the derivative of the sum and $x^2$ are equal. The deduction that $1=2$ is simply not true. The equality $nx = x^2$ is not comparable to an equality like $sin x^2 = 1 - cos x^2$ : the equation $nx = x^2$ holds for only two values of $x$, where as the trigonometric equation holds for any real/complex value of $x$.



                                              Hope that helps,






                                              share|cite|improve this answer









                                              $endgroup$















                                                -1












                                                -1








                                                -1





                                                $begingroup$

                                                The problem is that the equation $x + cdots + x = x^2$ only holds for two values of $x$, namely if you added $x$ with itself $n$ times, it holds at $x=0$ and $x=n$. Therefore your equation becomes $nx = x^2$, the differential is $n = 2x$ (the number of terms in the LHS of the equation should not depend on the real/complex parameter $x$) and the only thing you can deduce from this is that the first equation is equivalent to $x^2 - nx = x(x-n) = 0$ and the second equation is $x=n/2$, so when $x=0$ or $x=n$ then the sum of the $x$'s and $x^2$ are equal, and when $x=n/2$ the derivative of the sum and $x^2$ are equal. The deduction that $1=2$ is simply not true. The equality $nx = x^2$ is not comparable to an equality like $sin x^2 = 1 - cos x^2$ : the equation $nx = x^2$ holds for only two values of $x$, where as the trigonometric equation holds for any real/complex value of $x$.



                                                Hope that helps,






                                                share|cite|improve this answer









                                                $endgroup$



                                                The problem is that the equation $x + cdots + x = x^2$ only holds for two values of $x$, namely if you added $x$ with itself $n$ times, it holds at $x=0$ and $x=n$. Therefore your equation becomes $nx = x^2$, the differential is $n = 2x$ (the number of terms in the LHS of the equation should not depend on the real/complex parameter $x$) and the only thing you can deduce from this is that the first equation is equivalent to $x^2 - nx = x(x-n) = 0$ and the second equation is $x=n/2$, so when $x=0$ or $x=n$ then the sum of the $x$'s and $x^2$ are equal, and when $x=n/2$ the derivative of the sum and $x^2$ are equal. The deduction that $1=2$ is simply not true. The equality $nx = x^2$ is not comparable to an equality like $sin x^2 = 1 - cos x^2$ : the equation $nx = x^2$ holds for only two values of $x$, where as the trigonometric equation holds for any real/complex value of $x$.



                                                Hope that helps,







                                                share|cite|improve this answer












                                                share|cite|improve this answer



                                                share|cite|improve this answer










                                                answered Apr 14 '15 at 0:52









                                                Patrick Da SilvaPatrick Da Silva

                                                32.2k354111




                                                32.2k354111





















                                                    -3












                                                    $begingroup$

                                                    Even if x were to be an integer, once you have x=2x, a possible value for is 0 which would make that equation true. Thus if x can be zero, then you are simply dividing by a variable that equals 0. And you cannot divide by zero!!!!






                                                    share|cite|improve this answer









                                                    $endgroup$












                                                    • $begingroup$
                                                      The derivative of $f(x) = x^2$ at $x = 0$ is $0$. No division by zero necessary. -1
                                                      $endgroup$
                                                      – Thomas
                                                      Mar 3 '14 at 4:40















                                                    -3












                                                    $begingroup$

                                                    Even if x were to be an integer, once you have x=2x, a possible value for is 0 which would make that equation true. Thus if x can be zero, then you are simply dividing by a variable that equals 0. And you cannot divide by zero!!!!






                                                    share|cite|improve this answer









                                                    $endgroup$












                                                    • $begingroup$
                                                      The derivative of $f(x) = x^2$ at $x = 0$ is $0$. No division by zero necessary. -1
                                                      $endgroup$
                                                      – Thomas
                                                      Mar 3 '14 at 4:40













                                                    -3












                                                    -3








                                                    -3





                                                    $begingroup$

                                                    Even if x were to be an integer, once you have x=2x, a possible value for is 0 which would make that equation true. Thus if x can be zero, then you are simply dividing by a variable that equals 0. And you cannot divide by zero!!!!






                                                    share|cite|improve this answer









                                                    $endgroup$



                                                    Even if x were to be an integer, once you have x=2x, a possible value for is 0 which would make that equation true. Thus if x can be zero, then you are simply dividing by a variable that equals 0. And you cannot divide by zero!!!!







                                                    share|cite|improve this answer












                                                    share|cite|improve this answer



                                                    share|cite|improve this answer










                                                    answered Jan 22 '14 at 19:02









                                                    johnjohn

                                                    31




                                                    31











                                                    • $begingroup$
                                                      The derivative of $f(x) = x^2$ at $x = 0$ is $0$. No division by zero necessary. -1
                                                      $endgroup$
                                                      – Thomas
                                                      Mar 3 '14 at 4:40
















                                                    • $begingroup$
                                                      The derivative of $f(x) = x^2$ at $x = 0$ is $0$. No division by zero necessary. -1
                                                      $endgroup$
                                                      – Thomas
                                                      Mar 3 '14 at 4:40















                                                    $begingroup$
                                                    The derivative of $f(x) = x^2$ at $x = 0$ is $0$. No division by zero necessary. -1
                                                    $endgroup$
                                                    – Thomas
                                                    Mar 3 '14 at 4:40




                                                    $begingroup$
                                                    The derivative of $f(x) = x^2$ at $x = 0$ is $0$. No division by zero necessary. -1
                                                    $endgroup$
                                                    – Thomas
                                                    Mar 3 '14 at 4:40





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