Prove that every infinite set has a countable subset (non constructive proof) The 2019 Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results Are In Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara Planned maintenance scheduled April 17/18, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)Proving : Every infinite subset of countable set is countableEvery bounded non countable subset of $mathbbR$ has a bothsided accumulation point.Prove that every compact metric space $K$ has a countable base, and that $K$ is therefore separable.Uncountable set has uncountably many limit points. (Proof Checking Request.)Properties of Infinite set on co-finite topology and Countable set on co-countable topologyRudin proof: $mathbbQ$ is countableProve that the set of all algebraic numbers is countable: proof using fundamental theorem of algebraCountable subset of an infinite setIs any countable subset of an uncountable set closed?An infinite set has always a countably infinite subset?

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Prove that every infinite set has a countable subset (non constructive proof)



The 2019 Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results Are In
Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Planned maintenance scheduled April 17/18, 2019 at 00:00UTC (8:00pm US/Eastern)Proving : Every infinite subset of countable set is countableEvery bounded non countable subset of $mathbbR$ has a bothsided accumulation point.Prove that every compact metric space $K$ has a countable base, and that $K$ is therefore separable.Uncountable set has uncountably many limit points. (Proof Checking Request.)Properties of Infinite set on co-finite topology and Countable set on co-countable topologyRudin proof: $mathbbQ$ is countableProve that the set of all algebraic numbers is countable: proof using fundamental theorem of algebraCountable subset of an infinite setIs any countable subset of an uncountable set closed?An infinite set has always a countably infinite subset?










2












$begingroup$


I've seen a constructive proof based on induction that is awesome. But when I tried to prove it, I used a different approach. Can someone please verify my work? Thank you and any critic is highly appreciated!




It's a proven fact that $X$ is a countable set if and only if $exists f : mathbbN rightarrow X$ surjective. Therefore if $X$ is not a countable set then $nexists f: mathbbN rightarrow X$.



Since $X$ is infinite, it can be a (1) countable infinite set of an (2) uncountable infinite set.



(1) is trivial, since $X subset X$, the theorem is proved for this case.



(2) $X$ is an uncountable infinite set. We can conclude by our previous statement that $nexists f: mathbbN rightarrow X$ surjective. Therefore, for every function that maps $mathbbN$ to $X$ there'll be elements of $X$ that is not image of any $n in mathbbN$. Let's define a set of those elements:
$$
S:= x in X
$$

Now we can build a surjective function:
$$
F:=f|_f^-1(Xsetminus S) : f^-1(X setminus S) subset mathbbN longrightarrow X setminus S
$$

And by axiom of choice we can change the domain of $F$ by selecting for every $x in X setminus S$ only one element of $f^-1(X setminus S)$. That'll make $F$ a bijective function. Let $overlineF$ be that modified version of $F$ and $overlinemathbbN$ be the modified version $f^-1(X setminus S)$. Now we have:
$$
overlinemathbbN subset f^-1(X setminus S) subset mathbbN rightarrow overlinemathbbN subset mathbbN \
overlineF : overlinemathbbN longrightarrow X setminus S
$$

It's also a proven fact that every subset of a countable set is countable. Since $mathbbN$ is countable, then $overlinemathbbN$ is countable. By definition of countable set, we know that $exists g: mathbbN rightarrow overlinemathbbN$ bijective. Finally we can create a composition of functions to make a map from $mathbbN$ to $X setminus S$:
$$
h := overlineF circ g : mathbbN rightarrow X setminus S
$$

Since the composition of bijective functions is bijective, $h$ is also bijective and therefore $Xsetminus S subset X$ is countable.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$











  • $begingroup$
    Are you assuming $f$ is injective? Because even in your definition, there is always a surjective function from $mathbbN$ to any finite set, so countable could also mean finite. So for your proof to work you would have to assume that $f$ is injective, but this seems equivalent to saying $X$ has a countably (infinite) subset.
    $endgroup$
    – vxnture
    Mar 31 at 10:28















2












$begingroup$


I've seen a constructive proof based on induction that is awesome. But when I tried to prove it, I used a different approach. Can someone please verify my work? Thank you and any critic is highly appreciated!




It's a proven fact that $X$ is a countable set if and only if $exists f : mathbbN rightarrow X$ surjective. Therefore if $X$ is not a countable set then $nexists f: mathbbN rightarrow X$.



Since $X$ is infinite, it can be a (1) countable infinite set of an (2) uncountable infinite set.



(1) is trivial, since $X subset X$, the theorem is proved for this case.



(2) $X$ is an uncountable infinite set. We can conclude by our previous statement that $nexists f: mathbbN rightarrow X$ surjective. Therefore, for every function that maps $mathbbN$ to $X$ there'll be elements of $X$ that is not image of any $n in mathbbN$. Let's define a set of those elements:
$$
S:= x in X
$$

Now we can build a surjective function:
$$
F:=f|_f^-1(Xsetminus S) : f^-1(X setminus S) subset mathbbN longrightarrow X setminus S
$$

And by axiom of choice we can change the domain of $F$ by selecting for every $x in X setminus S$ only one element of $f^-1(X setminus S)$. That'll make $F$ a bijective function. Let $overlineF$ be that modified version of $F$ and $overlinemathbbN$ be the modified version $f^-1(X setminus S)$. Now we have:
$$
overlinemathbbN subset f^-1(X setminus S) subset mathbbN rightarrow overlinemathbbN subset mathbbN \
overlineF : overlinemathbbN longrightarrow X setminus S
$$

It's also a proven fact that every subset of a countable set is countable. Since $mathbbN$ is countable, then $overlinemathbbN$ is countable. By definition of countable set, we know that $exists g: mathbbN rightarrow overlinemathbbN$ bijective. Finally we can create a composition of functions to make a map from $mathbbN$ to $X setminus S$:
$$
h := overlineF circ g : mathbbN rightarrow X setminus S
$$

Since the composition of bijective functions is bijective, $h$ is also bijective and therefore $Xsetminus S subset X$ is countable.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$











  • $begingroup$
    Are you assuming $f$ is injective? Because even in your definition, there is always a surjective function from $mathbbN$ to any finite set, so countable could also mean finite. So for your proof to work you would have to assume that $f$ is injective, but this seems equivalent to saying $X$ has a countably (infinite) subset.
    $endgroup$
    – vxnture
    Mar 31 at 10:28













2












2








2





$begingroup$


I've seen a constructive proof based on induction that is awesome. But when I tried to prove it, I used a different approach. Can someone please verify my work? Thank you and any critic is highly appreciated!




It's a proven fact that $X$ is a countable set if and only if $exists f : mathbbN rightarrow X$ surjective. Therefore if $X$ is not a countable set then $nexists f: mathbbN rightarrow X$.



Since $X$ is infinite, it can be a (1) countable infinite set of an (2) uncountable infinite set.



(1) is trivial, since $X subset X$, the theorem is proved for this case.



(2) $X$ is an uncountable infinite set. We can conclude by our previous statement that $nexists f: mathbbN rightarrow X$ surjective. Therefore, for every function that maps $mathbbN$ to $X$ there'll be elements of $X$ that is not image of any $n in mathbbN$. Let's define a set of those elements:
$$
S:= x in X
$$

Now we can build a surjective function:
$$
F:=f|_f^-1(Xsetminus S) : f^-1(X setminus S) subset mathbbN longrightarrow X setminus S
$$

And by axiom of choice we can change the domain of $F$ by selecting for every $x in X setminus S$ only one element of $f^-1(X setminus S)$. That'll make $F$ a bijective function. Let $overlineF$ be that modified version of $F$ and $overlinemathbbN$ be the modified version $f^-1(X setminus S)$. Now we have:
$$
overlinemathbbN subset f^-1(X setminus S) subset mathbbN rightarrow overlinemathbbN subset mathbbN \
overlineF : overlinemathbbN longrightarrow X setminus S
$$

It's also a proven fact that every subset of a countable set is countable. Since $mathbbN$ is countable, then $overlinemathbbN$ is countable. By definition of countable set, we know that $exists g: mathbbN rightarrow overlinemathbbN$ bijective. Finally we can create a composition of functions to make a map from $mathbbN$ to $X setminus S$:
$$
h := overlineF circ g : mathbbN rightarrow X setminus S
$$

Since the composition of bijective functions is bijective, $h$ is also bijective and therefore $Xsetminus S subset X$ is countable.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




I've seen a constructive proof based on induction that is awesome. But when I tried to prove it, I used a different approach. Can someone please verify my work? Thank you and any critic is highly appreciated!




It's a proven fact that $X$ is a countable set if and only if $exists f : mathbbN rightarrow X$ surjective. Therefore if $X$ is not a countable set then $nexists f: mathbbN rightarrow X$.



Since $X$ is infinite, it can be a (1) countable infinite set of an (2) uncountable infinite set.



(1) is trivial, since $X subset X$, the theorem is proved for this case.



(2) $X$ is an uncountable infinite set. We can conclude by our previous statement that $nexists f: mathbbN rightarrow X$ surjective. Therefore, for every function that maps $mathbbN$ to $X$ there'll be elements of $X$ that is not image of any $n in mathbbN$. Let's define a set of those elements:
$$
S:= x in X
$$

Now we can build a surjective function:
$$
F:=f|_f^-1(Xsetminus S) : f^-1(X setminus S) subset mathbbN longrightarrow X setminus S
$$

And by axiom of choice we can change the domain of $F$ by selecting for every $x in X setminus S$ only one element of $f^-1(X setminus S)$. That'll make $F$ a bijective function. Let $overlineF$ be that modified version of $F$ and $overlinemathbbN$ be the modified version $f^-1(X setminus S)$. Now we have:
$$
overlinemathbbN subset f^-1(X setminus S) subset mathbbN rightarrow overlinemathbbN subset mathbbN \
overlineF : overlinemathbbN longrightarrow X setminus S
$$

It's also a proven fact that every subset of a countable set is countable. Since $mathbbN$ is countable, then $overlinemathbbN$ is countable. By definition of countable set, we know that $exists g: mathbbN rightarrow overlinemathbbN$ bijective. Finally we can create a composition of functions to make a map from $mathbbN$ to $X setminus S$:
$$
h := overlineF circ g : mathbbN rightarrow X setminus S
$$

Since the composition of bijective functions is bijective, $h$ is also bijective and therefore $Xsetminus S subset X$ is countable.







real-analysis functions proof-verification






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share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited Mar 31 at 6:43







Bruno Reis

















asked Mar 31 at 6:38









Bruno ReisBruno Reis

1,039418




1,039418











  • $begingroup$
    Are you assuming $f$ is injective? Because even in your definition, there is always a surjective function from $mathbbN$ to any finite set, so countable could also mean finite. So for your proof to work you would have to assume that $f$ is injective, but this seems equivalent to saying $X$ has a countably (infinite) subset.
    $endgroup$
    – vxnture
    Mar 31 at 10:28
















  • $begingroup$
    Are you assuming $f$ is injective? Because even in your definition, there is always a surjective function from $mathbbN$ to any finite set, so countable could also mean finite. So for your proof to work you would have to assume that $f$ is injective, but this seems equivalent to saying $X$ has a countably (infinite) subset.
    $endgroup$
    – vxnture
    Mar 31 at 10:28















$begingroup$
Are you assuming $f$ is injective? Because even in your definition, there is always a surjective function from $mathbbN$ to any finite set, so countable could also mean finite. So for your proof to work you would have to assume that $f$ is injective, but this seems equivalent to saying $X$ has a countably (infinite) subset.
$endgroup$
– vxnture
Mar 31 at 10:28




$begingroup$
Are you assuming $f$ is injective? Because even in your definition, there is always a surjective function from $mathbbN$ to any finite set, so countable could also mean finite. So for your proof to work you would have to assume that $f$ is injective, but this seems equivalent to saying $X$ has a countably (infinite) subset.
$endgroup$
– vxnture
Mar 31 at 10:28










1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes


















0












$begingroup$

From your statement "every subset of a countable set is countable", I presume you're using the term "countable" to include all finite sets, including the empty set. But with that definition, both (1) and (2) are trivial, because $ emptyset subset X $. So, while I think your proof does work, it's kind of like using a sledgehammer to crack a nut.



A more interesting question is how to prove that any infinite set contains a countably infinite subset. In that case you would need to modify your proof to choose a function $ f:mathbbNrightarrow X $ with an infinite range, and, as vxnture points out in his comment, simply asserting the existence of such a function would amount to begging the question. Nevertheless, I don't think it would take much more to adapt your proof to the countably infinite case. The existence of an injective function $ f:left1,2,dots,nrightrightarrow X $ is relatively trivial, and so you should be able to use Zorn's lemma to prove the existence of an injective function whose domain is the whole of $ mathbbN $, and whose range is a subset of $ X $.






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    1 Answer
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    active

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    0












    $begingroup$

    From your statement "every subset of a countable set is countable", I presume you're using the term "countable" to include all finite sets, including the empty set. But with that definition, both (1) and (2) are trivial, because $ emptyset subset X $. So, while I think your proof does work, it's kind of like using a sledgehammer to crack a nut.



    A more interesting question is how to prove that any infinite set contains a countably infinite subset. In that case you would need to modify your proof to choose a function $ f:mathbbNrightarrow X $ with an infinite range, and, as vxnture points out in his comment, simply asserting the existence of such a function would amount to begging the question. Nevertheless, I don't think it would take much more to adapt your proof to the countably infinite case. The existence of an injective function $ f:left1,2,dots,nrightrightarrow X $ is relatively trivial, and so you should be able to use Zorn's lemma to prove the existence of an injective function whose domain is the whole of $ mathbbN $, and whose range is a subset of $ X $.






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$

















      0












      $begingroup$

      From your statement "every subset of a countable set is countable", I presume you're using the term "countable" to include all finite sets, including the empty set. But with that definition, both (1) and (2) are trivial, because $ emptyset subset X $. So, while I think your proof does work, it's kind of like using a sledgehammer to crack a nut.



      A more interesting question is how to prove that any infinite set contains a countably infinite subset. In that case you would need to modify your proof to choose a function $ f:mathbbNrightarrow X $ with an infinite range, and, as vxnture points out in his comment, simply asserting the existence of such a function would amount to begging the question. Nevertheless, I don't think it would take much more to adapt your proof to the countably infinite case. The existence of an injective function $ f:left1,2,dots,nrightrightarrow X $ is relatively trivial, and so you should be able to use Zorn's lemma to prove the existence of an injective function whose domain is the whole of $ mathbbN $, and whose range is a subset of $ X $.






      share|cite|improve this answer









      $endgroup$















        0












        0








        0





        $begingroup$

        From your statement "every subset of a countable set is countable", I presume you're using the term "countable" to include all finite sets, including the empty set. But with that definition, both (1) and (2) are trivial, because $ emptyset subset X $. So, while I think your proof does work, it's kind of like using a sledgehammer to crack a nut.



        A more interesting question is how to prove that any infinite set contains a countably infinite subset. In that case you would need to modify your proof to choose a function $ f:mathbbNrightarrow X $ with an infinite range, and, as vxnture points out in his comment, simply asserting the existence of such a function would amount to begging the question. Nevertheless, I don't think it would take much more to adapt your proof to the countably infinite case. The existence of an injective function $ f:left1,2,dots,nrightrightarrow X $ is relatively trivial, and so you should be able to use Zorn's lemma to prove the existence of an injective function whose domain is the whole of $ mathbbN $, and whose range is a subset of $ X $.






        share|cite|improve this answer









        $endgroup$



        From your statement "every subset of a countable set is countable", I presume you're using the term "countable" to include all finite sets, including the empty set. But with that definition, both (1) and (2) are trivial, because $ emptyset subset X $. So, while I think your proof does work, it's kind of like using a sledgehammer to crack a nut.



        A more interesting question is how to prove that any infinite set contains a countably infinite subset. In that case you would need to modify your proof to choose a function $ f:mathbbNrightarrow X $ with an infinite range, and, as vxnture points out in his comment, simply asserting the existence of such a function would amount to begging the question. Nevertheless, I don't think it would take much more to adapt your proof to the countably infinite case. The existence of an injective function $ f:left1,2,dots,nrightrightarrow X $ is relatively trivial, and so you should be able to use Zorn's lemma to prove the existence of an injective function whose domain is the whole of $ mathbbN $, and whose range is a subset of $ X $.







        share|cite|improve this answer












        share|cite|improve this answer



        share|cite|improve this answer










        answered Mar 31 at 13:26









        lonza leggieralonza leggiera

        1,47428




        1,47428



























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