Showing that $R(x)$ is a proper subset of $R((x))$ if $R$ is a fieldHow to prove that field of rational functions is a *proper* subset of field of formal Laurent series?How to prove that $k(x)$ is not complete in the $x$-adic metricRing theory, field of fractionsInvertible polynomials and power seriesShow that the Laurent Polynomials form a ringCharacterize units in formal power series $R[[x]]$Counter-example for the Multiplication of Classical Laurent SeriesPolynomial ring with automorphism-induced multiplicationThe set of formal power series over a fieldis a local ring?Prove that exist $f_1$ and $f_2$ such that $f=f_1+f_2$Understanding the field of fractions of $F[[x]]$ (the ring of formal power series in the indeterminate x with coefficents in F)Field of Fractions over Formal Power Series
ssTTsSTtRrriinInnnnNNNIiinngg
How seriously should I take size and weight limits of hand luggage?
Is there a hemisphere-neutral way of specifying a season?
How do I deal with an unproductive colleague in a small company?
How does a predictive coding aid in lossless compression?
Can I run a new neutral wire to repair a broken circuit?
What does the expression "A Mann!" means
Determining Impedance With An Antenna Analyzer
What does “the session was packed” mean in this context?
Detention in 1997
What are some good books on Machine Learning and AI like Krugman, Wells and Graddy's "Essentials of Economics"
Can a virus destroy the BIOS of a modern computer?
What mechanic is there to disable a threat instead of killing it?
Personal Teleportation: From Rags to Riches
Why didn't Boeing produce its own regional jet?
Why would the Red Woman birth a shadow if she worshipped the Lord of the Light?
Is it inappropriate for a student to attend their mentor's dissertation defense?
Why is it a bad idea to hire a hitman to eliminate most corrupt politicians?
What killed these X2 caps?
Is it possible to create a QR code using text?
Valid term from quadratic sequence?
How badly should I try to prevent a user from XSSing themselves?
Madden-Julian Oscillation (MJO) - How to interpret the index?
Assassin's bullet with mercury
Showing that $R(x)$ is a proper subset of $R((x))$ if $R$ is a field
How to prove that field of rational functions is a *proper* subset of field of formal Laurent series?How to prove that $k(x)$ is not complete in the $x$-adic metricRing theory, field of fractionsInvertible polynomials and power seriesShow that the Laurent Polynomials form a ringCharacterize units in formal power series $R[[x]]$Counter-example for the Multiplication of Classical Laurent SeriesPolynomial ring with automorphism-induced multiplicationThe set of formal power series over a fieldis a local ring?Prove that exist $f_1$ and $f_2$ such that $f=f_1+f_2$Understanding the field of fractions of $F[[x]]$ (the ring of formal power series in the indeterminate x with coefficents in F)Field of Fractions over Formal Power Series
$begingroup$
I would like to show that if $R$ is a field, then $R(x)$ is a proper subset of $R((x))$, where $R(x)$ is the ring of rational functions, and $R((x))$ is the ring of formal Laurent series.
If $f in R(x)$, then $f(x) = f_1(x)f_2^-1(x)$, where $f_1(x), f_2(x) in R[x]$. So I wrote this as $$f(x) = fracsum_i=0^na_ix^isum_j=0^mb_jx^j;,$$ and I would like to show that I can write $f$ in the form $sum_k=r^inftyc_kx^k$. However, I am unsure how to manipulate $f$ in order to show this. What I was thinking was to find some formal power series expansion for $f_2^-1(x)$, multiply out the summation with $f_1(x)$, then rearrange the coefficients and terms to obtain the desired form. However, I can't seem to derive a formula for the inverse of a polynomial in general that I could use for this. How can I go about manipulating $f_2^-1(x)$ to show this? Any suggestions?
Thanks!
abstract-algebra field-theory power-series
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I would like to show that if $R$ is a field, then $R(x)$ is a proper subset of $R((x))$, where $R(x)$ is the ring of rational functions, and $R((x))$ is the ring of formal Laurent series.
If $f in R(x)$, then $f(x) = f_1(x)f_2^-1(x)$, where $f_1(x), f_2(x) in R[x]$. So I wrote this as $$f(x) = fracsum_i=0^na_ix^isum_j=0^mb_jx^j;,$$ and I would like to show that I can write $f$ in the form $sum_k=r^inftyc_kx^k$. However, I am unsure how to manipulate $f$ in order to show this. What I was thinking was to find some formal power series expansion for $f_2^-1(x)$, multiply out the summation with $f_1(x)$, then rearrange the coefficients and terms to obtain the desired form. However, I can't seem to derive a formula for the inverse of a polynomial in general that I could use for this. How can I go about manipulating $f_2^-1(x)$ to show this? Any suggestions?
Thanks!
abstract-algebra field-theory power-series
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
Your main concern seem sto be with subset, but you als have to show proper. For the latter, consider the power series for $sin(x)$, for example, and observe that a rational function would have only finitely many zeroes.
$endgroup$
– Hagen von Eitzen
Nov 3 '12 at 20:55
3
$begingroup$
@Hagen: The power series of $sin x$ may not exist, if all those factorials are not invertible in $R$, or equivalently if $R$ has a positive characteristic.
$endgroup$
– Jyrki Lahtonen
Nov 3 '12 at 21:25
$begingroup$
@JyrkiLahtonen: You're right that it may not exist for any ring R, but for my purpose, I can assume that R is a field. So every non-zero element should have an inverse :)
$endgroup$
– Nizbel99
Nov 3 '12 at 21:28
3
$begingroup$
@user43552: Yes, but Jyrki is right. That all nonzero elements are invertible does not mean that e.g. $2$ is invertible because we might have $2=0$. Thus you need a different approach to show that the subset is proper. I suggest $$f(x)=sum_n=0^infty x^n!.$$ Whatever polynomial $q(x)$ you assume as denominator, the gappy high order terms of $q(x)f(x)$ do not cancel, hence $q(x)f(x)$ is not a polynomial.
$endgroup$
– Hagen von Eitzen
Nov 3 '12 at 21:47
4
$begingroup$
@Hagen: You might flesh that counterexample out to an answer.
$endgroup$
– Jyrki Lahtonen
Nov 4 '12 at 11:50
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I would like to show that if $R$ is a field, then $R(x)$ is a proper subset of $R((x))$, where $R(x)$ is the ring of rational functions, and $R((x))$ is the ring of formal Laurent series.
If $f in R(x)$, then $f(x) = f_1(x)f_2^-1(x)$, where $f_1(x), f_2(x) in R[x]$. So I wrote this as $$f(x) = fracsum_i=0^na_ix^isum_j=0^mb_jx^j;,$$ and I would like to show that I can write $f$ in the form $sum_k=r^inftyc_kx^k$. However, I am unsure how to manipulate $f$ in order to show this. What I was thinking was to find some formal power series expansion for $f_2^-1(x)$, multiply out the summation with $f_1(x)$, then rearrange the coefficients and terms to obtain the desired form. However, I can't seem to derive a formula for the inverse of a polynomial in general that I could use for this. How can I go about manipulating $f_2^-1(x)$ to show this? Any suggestions?
Thanks!
abstract-algebra field-theory power-series
$endgroup$
I would like to show that if $R$ is a field, then $R(x)$ is a proper subset of $R((x))$, where $R(x)$ is the ring of rational functions, and $R((x))$ is the ring of formal Laurent series.
If $f in R(x)$, then $f(x) = f_1(x)f_2^-1(x)$, where $f_1(x), f_2(x) in R[x]$. So I wrote this as $$f(x) = fracsum_i=0^na_ix^isum_j=0^mb_jx^j;,$$ and I would like to show that I can write $f$ in the form $sum_k=r^inftyc_kx^k$. However, I am unsure how to manipulate $f$ in order to show this. What I was thinking was to find some formal power series expansion for $f_2^-1(x)$, multiply out the summation with $f_1(x)$, then rearrange the coefficients and terms to obtain the desired form. However, I can't seem to derive a formula for the inverse of a polynomial in general that I could use for this. How can I go about manipulating $f_2^-1(x)$ to show this? Any suggestions?
Thanks!
abstract-algebra field-theory power-series
abstract-algebra field-theory power-series
edited Apr 2 '16 at 7:45
user26857
39.5k124283
39.5k124283
asked Nov 3 '12 at 20:26
Nizbel99Nizbel99
314418
314418
2
$begingroup$
Your main concern seem sto be with subset, but you als have to show proper. For the latter, consider the power series for $sin(x)$, for example, and observe that a rational function would have only finitely many zeroes.
$endgroup$
– Hagen von Eitzen
Nov 3 '12 at 20:55
3
$begingroup$
@Hagen: The power series of $sin x$ may not exist, if all those factorials are not invertible in $R$, or equivalently if $R$ has a positive characteristic.
$endgroup$
– Jyrki Lahtonen
Nov 3 '12 at 21:25
$begingroup$
@JyrkiLahtonen: You're right that it may not exist for any ring R, but for my purpose, I can assume that R is a field. So every non-zero element should have an inverse :)
$endgroup$
– Nizbel99
Nov 3 '12 at 21:28
3
$begingroup$
@user43552: Yes, but Jyrki is right. That all nonzero elements are invertible does not mean that e.g. $2$ is invertible because we might have $2=0$. Thus you need a different approach to show that the subset is proper. I suggest $$f(x)=sum_n=0^infty x^n!.$$ Whatever polynomial $q(x)$ you assume as denominator, the gappy high order terms of $q(x)f(x)$ do not cancel, hence $q(x)f(x)$ is not a polynomial.
$endgroup$
– Hagen von Eitzen
Nov 3 '12 at 21:47
4
$begingroup$
@Hagen: You might flesh that counterexample out to an answer.
$endgroup$
– Jyrki Lahtonen
Nov 4 '12 at 11:50
add a comment |
2
$begingroup$
Your main concern seem sto be with subset, but you als have to show proper. For the latter, consider the power series for $sin(x)$, for example, and observe that a rational function would have only finitely many zeroes.
$endgroup$
– Hagen von Eitzen
Nov 3 '12 at 20:55
3
$begingroup$
@Hagen: The power series of $sin x$ may not exist, if all those factorials are not invertible in $R$, or equivalently if $R$ has a positive characteristic.
$endgroup$
– Jyrki Lahtonen
Nov 3 '12 at 21:25
$begingroup$
@JyrkiLahtonen: You're right that it may not exist for any ring R, but for my purpose, I can assume that R is a field. So every non-zero element should have an inverse :)
$endgroup$
– Nizbel99
Nov 3 '12 at 21:28
3
$begingroup$
@user43552: Yes, but Jyrki is right. That all nonzero elements are invertible does not mean that e.g. $2$ is invertible because we might have $2=0$. Thus you need a different approach to show that the subset is proper. I suggest $$f(x)=sum_n=0^infty x^n!.$$ Whatever polynomial $q(x)$ you assume as denominator, the gappy high order terms of $q(x)f(x)$ do not cancel, hence $q(x)f(x)$ is not a polynomial.
$endgroup$
– Hagen von Eitzen
Nov 3 '12 at 21:47
4
$begingroup$
@Hagen: You might flesh that counterexample out to an answer.
$endgroup$
– Jyrki Lahtonen
Nov 4 '12 at 11:50
2
2
$begingroup$
Your main concern seem sto be with subset, but you als have to show proper. For the latter, consider the power series for $sin(x)$, for example, and observe that a rational function would have only finitely many zeroes.
$endgroup$
– Hagen von Eitzen
Nov 3 '12 at 20:55
$begingroup$
Your main concern seem sto be with subset, but you als have to show proper. For the latter, consider the power series for $sin(x)$, for example, and observe that a rational function would have only finitely many zeroes.
$endgroup$
– Hagen von Eitzen
Nov 3 '12 at 20:55
3
3
$begingroup$
@Hagen: The power series of $sin x$ may not exist, if all those factorials are not invertible in $R$, or equivalently if $R$ has a positive characteristic.
$endgroup$
– Jyrki Lahtonen
Nov 3 '12 at 21:25
$begingroup$
@Hagen: The power series of $sin x$ may not exist, if all those factorials are not invertible in $R$, or equivalently if $R$ has a positive characteristic.
$endgroup$
– Jyrki Lahtonen
Nov 3 '12 at 21:25
$begingroup$
@JyrkiLahtonen: You're right that it may not exist for any ring R, but for my purpose, I can assume that R is a field. So every non-zero element should have an inverse :)
$endgroup$
– Nizbel99
Nov 3 '12 at 21:28
$begingroup$
@JyrkiLahtonen: You're right that it may not exist for any ring R, but for my purpose, I can assume that R is a field. So every non-zero element should have an inverse :)
$endgroup$
– Nizbel99
Nov 3 '12 at 21:28
3
3
$begingroup$
@user43552: Yes, but Jyrki is right. That all nonzero elements are invertible does not mean that e.g. $2$ is invertible because we might have $2=0$. Thus you need a different approach to show that the subset is proper. I suggest $$f(x)=sum_n=0^infty x^n!.$$ Whatever polynomial $q(x)$ you assume as denominator, the gappy high order terms of $q(x)f(x)$ do not cancel, hence $q(x)f(x)$ is not a polynomial.
$endgroup$
– Hagen von Eitzen
Nov 3 '12 at 21:47
$begingroup$
@user43552: Yes, but Jyrki is right. That all nonzero elements are invertible does not mean that e.g. $2$ is invertible because we might have $2=0$. Thus you need a different approach to show that the subset is proper. I suggest $$f(x)=sum_n=0^infty x^n!.$$ Whatever polynomial $q(x)$ you assume as denominator, the gappy high order terms of $q(x)f(x)$ do not cancel, hence $q(x)f(x)$ is not a polynomial.
$endgroup$
– Hagen von Eitzen
Nov 3 '12 at 21:47
4
4
$begingroup$
@Hagen: You might flesh that counterexample out to an answer.
$endgroup$
– Jyrki Lahtonen
Nov 4 '12 at 11:50
$begingroup$
@Hagen: You might flesh that counterexample out to an answer.
$endgroup$
– Jyrki Lahtonen
Nov 4 '12 at 11:50
add a comment |
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
HINT: Write $f_2(x)$ in the form $x^rg(x)$, where $g$ has a non-zero constant term. Then $g(x)$ has an inverse in $R[[x]]$.
An easy induction shows that its coefficients can be calculated recursively: just start calculating! For instance, if $g(x)=a_0+a_1x+ldots+a_mx^m$, and the inverse is to be $h(x)=sum_kge 0b_kx^k$, it’s clear that you want $b_0=a_0^-1$. Then the first degree term in $g(x)h(x)$ must be $$(a_0b_1+a_1b_0)x=(a_0b_1+a_0^-1a_1)x;,$$
so $a_0b_1+a_0^-1a_1=0$, and you can solve for $b_1$. It’s easy to prove that this can be continued recursively.
And from there you’re pretty much home free.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Hmm, I think I understand it now. So writing $f$ as $f_1(x) / x^rg(x)$ gives: $x^-rf_1(x)/(sum_j=0^m-rb_j+rx^j+r)$. Then using the formula provided for the inverse, $sum_j=0^m-rb_j+rx^j+r$ becomes $sum_k=0^m-rc_kx^k$, where $c_k = -1/a_0 sum_i=1^m-ra_ib_m-r-i$. Then multiplying this gives us the desired formal Laurent series, right?
$endgroup$
– Nizbel99
Nov 3 '12 at 21:01
2
$begingroup$
@user43552: Yes, though you don’t really need to go into all of the gruesome detail: it’s enough to know that the formal power series $h=g^-1$ exists, since clearly $fhin R[[x]]$, and then the factor of $x^-r$ gets you your Laurent series.
$endgroup$
– Brian M. Scott
Nov 3 '12 at 21:05
$begingroup$
Okay. I wrote out the details here just to make sure that I understood the argument properly. :) Thanks!
$endgroup$
– Nizbel99
Nov 3 '12 at 21:08
$begingroup$
@user43552: What extra coefficients? The inverse $h(x)$ may well have infinitely many non-zero coefficients. (And you’re welcome!)
$endgroup$
– Brian M. Scott
Nov 3 '12 at 21:09
$begingroup$
I'm a little confused as to why the inverse is guaranteed to have infinitely many non-zero coefficients. I can see why this would be the case for a formal power series with infinitely many non-zero coefficients, but not necessarily just a polynomial (as in the case of rational functions).
$endgroup$
– Nizbel99
Nov 3 '12 at 21:16
|
show 8 more comments
$begingroup$
In case $R$ is finite or countable, the rational-function field is countable, while the Laurent-series field is uncountable.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
To show that $R(x)$ is a proper subset of $R((x))$, we first need to ignore the "is". Using more precision, I'd prefer to say that $R(x)$ is canonically isomorphic to a proper subring of $R((X))$.
First part: subset
We have a canonical and straightforward map from the ring $R[x]$ of polynomial to the ring $R((X))$ fo formal Laurent series (this does not even require $R$ to be a field) and accordingly identify polynomials with their corresponding power series.
To extend this map to $R(x)$ we need to find, for every non-zero polynomial $fin R[x]$, a series $uin R((x))$ such that $fcdot u=1$.
First consider the case that $f$ has constant term $1$. Then we can define $u_i$, $iinBbb N$, recursively such that for all $n$
$$tag1 f(x)cdot sum_i=0^nu_ix^iin 1+x^nR[x]$$
Indeed, we can just let $u_0=1$ and then recursively let $u_n$ be $-1$ times the coefficient of $x^n$ in the polynomial $f(x)cdotsum_i=0^n-1u_ix^i$.
We obtain a power series $u(x)$ with $f(x)u(x)=1$ as desired.
Now consider general $fne 0$. Then it can be written as $acdot x^kcdot hat f$ where $ain Rsetminus 0$, $kin Bbb N_0$, $hat f$ is a polynomial with constant term $1$.
As just seen, there is a power series $hat u$ with $hat fhat u=1$. Then $u:=a^-1x^-khat u$ is a Laurent series with $fu=1$, as desired. (Here is the only place where we use that $R$ is a field: We need to find $a^-1$).
Remark: Actually, it suffices to know that $R((x))$ is itself a field; which by itself can be proved by finding a multiplicative inverse recursively (almost) precisely as above.
Second part: proper
It suffices to exhibit a single formal Laurent series that cannot be written as quotient of polynomials.
Consider
$$ u(x)=sum_k=0^infty x^k^2 $$
and assume that $u=frac fg$ with $gne 0$, say $g(x)=sum_j=0^d a_jx^j$ with $a_dne 0$.
Pick $mge maxd,1$.
Then in multiplying $u(x)g(x)$ we see that the coefficient of $x^m^2+d$ equals $a_d$ because $deg(x^kg)<m^2+d$ for $k<m$ and $x^m^2+d+1mid x^kg$ for $k>m$. Hence $ug$ has infinitely many nonzero coefficients and is not a polynomial.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
I'm a bit unsure why the years-old answers were deemed to show not enough detail, but here goes another summary of the proof, this time including also the part about "proper".
$endgroup$
– Hagen von Eitzen
Apr 7 '16 at 14:18
$begingroup$
I think it was precisely for the reason of the proper containment, but you can click through the linked question to see for yourself the comments by the user which prompted me. Regards
$endgroup$
– rschwieb
Apr 7 '16 at 16:40
$begingroup$
@HagenvonEitzen Thank you very much. Excellent, as usual. I already had the first part, and your second part is crystal clear. +1
$endgroup$
– DonAntonio
Apr 8 '16 at 14:07
$begingroup$
Don't you want "because $deg(x^k^2g)<m^2+d$ for $k<m$ and $x^m^2+d+1 | x^k^2g$ for $k >m$" in the penultimate sentence?
$endgroup$
– Torsten Schoeneberg
Dec 19 '17 at 17:59
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Hint $rmdisplaystylequad 1: =: (a-xf)(b-xg) Rightarrow ab=1$
$$Rightarrow displaystylermfrac1b-xf = fraca1-axf = a:(1+axf+(axf)^2+(axf)^3+:cdots:)$$
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
Could you explain why this implication/equality follows? I'm afraid that I don't see it =(
$endgroup$
– Nizbel99
Nov 3 '12 at 20:43
add a comment |
$begingroup$
If your field $R$ is countable, if I am not mistaken, another possible argument is a cardinality argument, probbably (?) under the Axiom of Choice though :
$R[x]$ can be viewed as $bigcup_ninmathbf N R^n$, a countable union of countable sets, so $R[x]$ is countable. Its fraction field $R(x)$ is a quotient of $R[x]times R[x]$, hence countable.
On the other hand $R((x))$ contains "$0,1((x))$", hence has cardinality at least $2^aleph_0$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function ()
return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function ()
StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix)
StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
);
);
, "mathjax-editing");
StackExchange.ready(function()
var channelOptions =
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "69"
;
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function()
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled)
StackExchange.using("snippets", function()
createEditor();
);
else
createEditor();
);
function createEditor()
StackExchange.prepareEditor(
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: true,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: 10,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader:
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
,
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
);
);
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f228422%2fshowing-that-rx-is-a-proper-subset-of-rx-if-r-is-a-field%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
HINT: Write $f_2(x)$ in the form $x^rg(x)$, where $g$ has a non-zero constant term. Then $g(x)$ has an inverse in $R[[x]]$.
An easy induction shows that its coefficients can be calculated recursively: just start calculating! For instance, if $g(x)=a_0+a_1x+ldots+a_mx^m$, and the inverse is to be $h(x)=sum_kge 0b_kx^k$, it’s clear that you want $b_0=a_0^-1$. Then the first degree term in $g(x)h(x)$ must be $$(a_0b_1+a_1b_0)x=(a_0b_1+a_0^-1a_1)x;,$$
so $a_0b_1+a_0^-1a_1=0$, and you can solve for $b_1$. It’s easy to prove that this can be continued recursively.
And from there you’re pretty much home free.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Hmm, I think I understand it now. So writing $f$ as $f_1(x) / x^rg(x)$ gives: $x^-rf_1(x)/(sum_j=0^m-rb_j+rx^j+r)$. Then using the formula provided for the inverse, $sum_j=0^m-rb_j+rx^j+r$ becomes $sum_k=0^m-rc_kx^k$, where $c_k = -1/a_0 sum_i=1^m-ra_ib_m-r-i$. Then multiplying this gives us the desired formal Laurent series, right?
$endgroup$
– Nizbel99
Nov 3 '12 at 21:01
2
$begingroup$
@user43552: Yes, though you don’t really need to go into all of the gruesome detail: it’s enough to know that the formal power series $h=g^-1$ exists, since clearly $fhin R[[x]]$, and then the factor of $x^-r$ gets you your Laurent series.
$endgroup$
– Brian M. Scott
Nov 3 '12 at 21:05
$begingroup$
Okay. I wrote out the details here just to make sure that I understood the argument properly. :) Thanks!
$endgroup$
– Nizbel99
Nov 3 '12 at 21:08
$begingroup$
@user43552: What extra coefficients? The inverse $h(x)$ may well have infinitely many non-zero coefficients. (And you’re welcome!)
$endgroup$
– Brian M. Scott
Nov 3 '12 at 21:09
$begingroup$
I'm a little confused as to why the inverse is guaranteed to have infinitely many non-zero coefficients. I can see why this would be the case for a formal power series with infinitely many non-zero coefficients, but not necessarily just a polynomial (as in the case of rational functions).
$endgroup$
– Nizbel99
Nov 3 '12 at 21:16
|
show 8 more comments
$begingroup$
HINT: Write $f_2(x)$ in the form $x^rg(x)$, where $g$ has a non-zero constant term. Then $g(x)$ has an inverse in $R[[x]]$.
An easy induction shows that its coefficients can be calculated recursively: just start calculating! For instance, if $g(x)=a_0+a_1x+ldots+a_mx^m$, and the inverse is to be $h(x)=sum_kge 0b_kx^k$, it’s clear that you want $b_0=a_0^-1$. Then the first degree term in $g(x)h(x)$ must be $$(a_0b_1+a_1b_0)x=(a_0b_1+a_0^-1a_1)x;,$$
so $a_0b_1+a_0^-1a_1=0$, and you can solve for $b_1$. It’s easy to prove that this can be continued recursively.
And from there you’re pretty much home free.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Hmm, I think I understand it now. So writing $f$ as $f_1(x) / x^rg(x)$ gives: $x^-rf_1(x)/(sum_j=0^m-rb_j+rx^j+r)$. Then using the formula provided for the inverse, $sum_j=0^m-rb_j+rx^j+r$ becomes $sum_k=0^m-rc_kx^k$, where $c_k = -1/a_0 sum_i=1^m-ra_ib_m-r-i$. Then multiplying this gives us the desired formal Laurent series, right?
$endgroup$
– Nizbel99
Nov 3 '12 at 21:01
2
$begingroup$
@user43552: Yes, though you don’t really need to go into all of the gruesome detail: it’s enough to know that the formal power series $h=g^-1$ exists, since clearly $fhin R[[x]]$, and then the factor of $x^-r$ gets you your Laurent series.
$endgroup$
– Brian M. Scott
Nov 3 '12 at 21:05
$begingroup$
Okay. I wrote out the details here just to make sure that I understood the argument properly. :) Thanks!
$endgroup$
– Nizbel99
Nov 3 '12 at 21:08
$begingroup$
@user43552: What extra coefficients? The inverse $h(x)$ may well have infinitely many non-zero coefficients. (And you’re welcome!)
$endgroup$
– Brian M. Scott
Nov 3 '12 at 21:09
$begingroup$
I'm a little confused as to why the inverse is guaranteed to have infinitely many non-zero coefficients. I can see why this would be the case for a formal power series with infinitely many non-zero coefficients, but not necessarily just a polynomial (as in the case of rational functions).
$endgroup$
– Nizbel99
Nov 3 '12 at 21:16
|
show 8 more comments
$begingroup$
HINT: Write $f_2(x)$ in the form $x^rg(x)$, where $g$ has a non-zero constant term. Then $g(x)$ has an inverse in $R[[x]]$.
An easy induction shows that its coefficients can be calculated recursively: just start calculating! For instance, if $g(x)=a_0+a_1x+ldots+a_mx^m$, and the inverse is to be $h(x)=sum_kge 0b_kx^k$, it’s clear that you want $b_0=a_0^-1$. Then the first degree term in $g(x)h(x)$ must be $$(a_0b_1+a_1b_0)x=(a_0b_1+a_0^-1a_1)x;,$$
so $a_0b_1+a_0^-1a_1=0$, and you can solve for $b_1$. It’s easy to prove that this can be continued recursively.
And from there you’re pretty much home free.
$endgroup$
HINT: Write $f_2(x)$ in the form $x^rg(x)$, where $g$ has a non-zero constant term. Then $g(x)$ has an inverse in $R[[x]]$.
An easy induction shows that its coefficients can be calculated recursively: just start calculating! For instance, if $g(x)=a_0+a_1x+ldots+a_mx^m$, and the inverse is to be $h(x)=sum_kge 0b_kx^k$, it’s clear that you want $b_0=a_0^-1$. Then the first degree term in $g(x)h(x)$ must be $$(a_0b_1+a_1b_0)x=(a_0b_1+a_0^-1a_1)x;,$$
so $a_0b_1+a_0^-1a_1=0$, and you can solve for $b_1$. It’s easy to prove that this can be continued recursively.
And from there you’re pretty much home free.
edited Nov 3 '12 at 20:51
answered Nov 3 '12 at 20:46
Brian M. ScottBrian M. Scott
460k40516917
460k40516917
$begingroup$
Hmm, I think I understand it now. So writing $f$ as $f_1(x) / x^rg(x)$ gives: $x^-rf_1(x)/(sum_j=0^m-rb_j+rx^j+r)$. Then using the formula provided for the inverse, $sum_j=0^m-rb_j+rx^j+r$ becomes $sum_k=0^m-rc_kx^k$, where $c_k = -1/a_0 sum_i=1^m-ra_ib_m-r-i$. Then multiplying this gives us the desired formal Laurent series, right?
$endgroup$
– Nizbel99
Nov 3 '12 at 21:01
2
$begingroup$
@user43552: Yes, though you don’t really need to go into all of the gruesome detail: it’s enough to know that the formal power series $h=g^-1$ exists, since clearly $fhin R[[x]]$, and then the factor of $x^-r$ gets you your Laurent series.
$endgroup$
– Brian M. Scott
Nov 3 '12 at 21:05
$begingroup$
Okay. I wrote out the details here just to make sure that I understood the argument properly. :) Thanks!
$endgroup$
– Nizbel99
Nov 3 '12 at 21:08
$begingroup$
@user43552: What extra coefficients? The inverse $h(x)$ may well have infinitely many non-zero coefficients. (And you’re welcome!)
$endgroup$
– Brian M. Scott
Nov 3 '12 at 21:09
$begingroup$
I'm a little confused as to why the inverse is guaranteed to have infinitely many non-zero coefficients. I can see why this would be the case for a formal power series with infinitely many non-zero coefficients, but not necessarily just a polynomial (as in the case of rational functions).
$endgroup$
– Nizbel99
Nov 3 '12 at 21:16
|
show 8 more comments
$begingroup$
Hmm, I think I understand it now. So writing $f$ as $f_1(x) / x^rg(x)$ gives: $x^-rf_1(x)/(sum_j=0^m-rb_j+rx^j+r)$. Then using the formula provided for the inverse, $sum_j=0^m-rb_j+rx^j+r$ becomes $sum_k=0^m-rc_kx^k$, where $c_k = -1/a_0 sum_i=1^m-ra_ib_m-r-i$. Then multiplying this gives us the desired formal Laurent series, right?
$endgroup$
– Nizbel99
Nov 3 '12 at 21:01
2
$begingroup$
@user43552: Yes, though you don’t really need to go into all of the gruesome detail: it’s enough to know that the formal power series $h=g^-1$ exists, since clearly $fhin R[[x]]$, and then the factor of $x^-r$ gets you your Laurent series.
$endgroup$
– Brian M. Scott
Nov 3 '12 at 21:05
$begingroup$
Okay. I wrote out the details here just to make sure that I understood the argument properly. :) Thanks!
$endgroup$
– Nizbel99
Nov 3 '12 at 21:08
$begingroup$
@user43552: What extra coefficients? The inverse $h(x)$ may well have infinitely many non-zero coefficients. (And you’re welcome!)
$endgroup$
– Brian M. Scott
Nov 3 '12 at 21:09
$begingroup$
I'm a little confused as to why the inverse is guaranteed to have infinitely many non-zero coefficients. I can see why this would be the case for a formal power series with infinitely many non-zero coefficients, but not necessarily just a polynomial (as in the case of rational functions).
$endgroup$
– Nizbel99
Nov 3 '12 at 21:16
$begingroup$
Hmm, I think I understand it now. So writing $f$ as $f_1(x) / x^rg(x)$ gives: $x^-rf_1(x)/(sum_j=0^m-rb_j+rx^j+r)$. Then using the formula provided for the inverse, $sum_j=0^m-rb_j+rx^j+r$ becomes $sum_k=0^m-rc_kx^k$, where $c_k = -1/a_0 sum_i=1^m-ra_ib_m-r-i$. Then multiplying this gives us the desired formal Laurent series, right?
$endgroup$
– Nizbel99
Nov 3 '12 at 21:01
$begingroup$
Hmm, I think I understand it now. So writing $f$ as $f_1(x) / x^rg(x)$ gives: $x^-rf_1(x)/(sum_j=0^m-rb_j+rx^j+r)$. Then using the formula provided for the inverse, $sum_j=0^m-rb_j+rx^j+r$ becomes $sum_k=0^m-rc_kx^k$, where $c_k = -1/a_0 sum_i=1^m-ra_ib_m-r-i$. Then multiplying this gives us the desired formal Laurent series, right?
$endgroup$
– Nizbel99
Nov 3 '12 at 21:01
2
2
$begingroup$
@user43552: Yes, though you don’t really need to go into all of the gruesome detail: it’s enough to know that the formal power series $h=g^-1$ exists, since clearly $fhin R[[x]]$, and then the factor of $x^-r$ gets you your Laurent series.
$endgroup$
– Brian M. Scott
Nov 3 '12 at 21:05
$begingroup$
@user43552: Yes, though you don’t really need to go into all of the gruesome detail: it’s enough to know that the formal power series $h=g^-1$ exists, since clearly $fhin R[[x]]$, and then the factor of $x^-r$ gets you your Laurent series.
$endgroup$
– Brian M. Scott
Nov 3 '12 at 21:05
$begingroup$
Okay. I wrote out the details here just to make sure that I understood the argument properly. :) Thanks!
$endgroup$
– Nizbel99
Nov 3 '12 at 21:08
$begingroup$
Okay. I wrote out the details here just to make sure that I understood the argument properly. :) Thanks!
$endgroup$
– Nizbel99
Nov 3 '12 at 21:08
$begingroup$
@user43552: What extra coefficients? The inverse $h(x)$ may well have infinitely many non-zero coefficients. (And you’re welcome!)
$endgroup$
– Brian M. Scott
Nov 3 '12 at 21:09
$begingroup$
@user43552: What extra coefficients? The inverse $h(x)$ may well have infinitely many non-zero coefficients. (And you’re welcome!)
$endgroup$
– Brian M. Scott
Nov 3 '12 at 21:09
$begingroup$
I'm a little confused as to why the inverse is guaranteed to have infinitely many non-zero coefficients. I can see why this would be the case for a formal power series with infinitely many non-zero coefficients, but not necessarily just a polynomial (as in the case of rational functions).
$endgroup$
– Nizbel99
Nov 3 '12 at 21:16
$begingroup$
I'm a little confused as to why the inverse is guaranteed to have infinitely many non-zero coefficients. I can see why this would be the case for a formal power series with infinitely many non-zero coefficients, but not necessarily just a polynomial (as in the case of rational functions).
$endgroup$
– Nizbel99
Nov 3 '12 at 21:16
|
show 8 more comments
$begingroup$
In case $R$ is finite or countable, the rational-function field is countable, while the Laurent-series field is uncountable.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In case $R$ is finite or countable, the rational-function field is countable, while the Laurent-series field is uncountable.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In case $R$ is finite or countable, the rational-function field is countable, while the Laurent-series field is uncountable.
$endgroup$
In case $R$ is finite or countable, the rational-function field is countable, while the Laurent-series field is uncountable.
answered Nov 3 '12 at 22:51
LubinLubin
45.4k44688
45.4k44688
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
To show that $R(x)$ is a proper subset of $R((x))$, we first need to ignore the "is". Using more precision, I'd prefer to say that $R(x)$ is canonically isomorphic to a proper subring of $R((X))$.
First part: subset
We have a canonical and straightforward map from the ring $R[x]$ of polynomial to the ring $R((X))$ fo formal Laurent series (this does not even require $R$ to be a field) and accordingly identify polynomials with their corresponding power series.
To extend this map to $R(x)$ we need to find, for every non-zero polynomial $fin R[x]$, a series $uin R((x))$ such that $fcdot u=1$.
First consider the case that $f$ has constant term $1$. Then we can define $u_i$, $iinBbb N$, recursively such that for all $n$
$$tag1 f(x)cdot sum_i=0^nu_ix^iin 1+x^nR[x]$$
Indeed, we can just let $u_0=1$ and then recursively let $u_n$ be $-1$ times the coefficient of $x^n$ in the polynomial $f(x)cdotsum_i=0^n-1u_ix^i$.
We obtain a power series $u(x)$ with $f(x)u(x)=1$ as desired.
Now consider general $fne 0$. Then it can be written as $acdot x^kcdot hat f$ where $ain Rsetminus 0$, $kin Bbb N_0$, $hat f$ is a polynomial with constant term $1$.
As just seen, there is a power series $hat u$ with $hat fhat u=1$. Then $u:=a^-1x^-khat u$ is a Laurent series with $fu=1$, as desired. (Here is the only place where we use that $R$ is a field: We need to find $a^-1$).
Remark: Actually, it suffices to know that $R((x))$ is itself a field; which by itself can be proved by finding a multiplicative inverse recursively (almost) precisely as above.
Second part: proper
It suffices to exhibit a single formal Laurent series that cannot be written as quotient of polynomials.
Consider
$$ u(x)=sum_k=0^infty x^k^2 $$
and assume that $u=frac fg$ with $gne 0$, say $g(x)=sum_j=0^d a_jx^j$ with $a_dne 0$.
Pick $mge maxd,1$.
Then in multiplying $u(x)g(x)$ we see that the coefficient of $x^m^2+d$ equals $a_d$ because $deg(x^kg)<m^2+d$ for $k<m$ and $x^m^2+d+1mid x^kg$ for $k>m$. Hence $ug$ has infinitely many nonzero coefficients and is not a polynomial.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
I'm a bit unsure why the years-old answers were deemed to show not enough detail, but here goes another summary of the proof, this time including also the part about "proper".
$endgroup$
– Hagen von Eitzen
Apr 7 '16 at 14:18
$begingroup$
I think it was precisely for the reason of the proper containment, but you can click through the linked question to see for yourself the comments by the user which prompted me. Regards
$endgroup$
– rschwieb
Apr 7 '16 at 16:40
$begingroup$
@HagenvonEitzen Thank you very much. Excellent, as usual. I already had the first part, and your second part is crystal clear. +1
$endgroup$
– DonAntonio
Apr 8 '16 at 14:07
$begingroup$
Don't you want "because $deg(x^k^2g)<m^2+d$ for $k<m$ and $x^m^2+d+1 | x^k^2g$ for $k >m$" in the penultimate sentence?
$endgroup$
– Torsten Schoeneberg
Dec 19 '17 at 17:59
add a comment |
$begingroup$
To show that $R(x)$ is a proper subset of $R((x))$, we first need to ignore the "is". Using more precision, I'd prefer to say that $R(x)$ is canonically isomorphic to a proper subring of $R((X))$.
First part: subset
We have a canonical and straightforward map from the ring $R[x]$ of polynomial to the ring $R((X))$ fo formal Laurent series (this does not even require $R$ to be a field) and accordingly identify polynomials with their corresponding power series.
To extend this map to $R(x)$ we need to find, for every non-zero polynomial $fin R[x]$, a series $uin R((x))$ such that $fcdot u=1$.
First consider the case that $f$ has constant term $1$. Then we can define $u_i$, $iinBbb N$, recursively such that for all $n$
$$tag1 f(x)cdot sum_i=0^nu_ix^iin 1+x^nR[x]$$
Indeed, we can just let $u_0=1$ and then recursively let $u_n$ be $-1$ times the coefficient of $x^n$ in the polynomial $f(x)cdotsum_i=0^n-1u_ix^i$.
We obtain a power series $u(x)$ with $f(x)u(x)=1$ as desired.
Now consider general $fne 0$. Then it can be written as $acdot x^kcdot hat f$ where $ain Rsetminus 0$, $kin Bbb N_0$, $hat f$ is a polynomial with constant term $1$.
As just seen, there is a power series $hat u$ with $hat fhat u=1$. Then $u:=a^-1x^-khat u$ is a Laurent series with $fu=1$, as desired. (Here is the only place where we use that $R$ is a field: We need to find $a^-1$).
Remark: Actually, it suffices to know that $R((x))$ is itself a field; which by itself can be proved by finding a multiplicative inverse recursively (almost) precisely as above.
Second part: proper
It suffices to exhibit a single formal Laurent series that cannot be written as quotient of polynomials.
Consider
$$ u(x)=sum_k=0^infty x^k^2 $$
and assume that $u=frac fg$ with $gne 0$, say $g(x)=sum_j=0^d a_jx^j$ with $a_dne 0$.
Pick $mge maxd,1$.
Then in multiplying $u(x)g(x)$ we see that the coefficient of $x^m^2+d$ equals $a_d$ because $deg(x^kg)<m^2+d$ for $k<m$ and $x^m^2+d+1mid x^kg$ for $k>m$. Hence $ug$ has infinitely many nonzero coefficients and is not a polynomial.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
I'm a bit unsure why the years-old answers were deemed to show not enough detail, but here goes another summary of the proof, this time including also the part about "proper".
$endgroup$
– Hagen von Eitzen
Apr 7 '16 at 14:18
$begingroup$
I think it was precisely for the reason of the proper containment, but you can click through the linked question to see for yourself the comments by the user which prompted me. Regards
$endgroup$
– rschwieb
Apr 7 '16 at 16:40
$begingroup$
@HagenvonEitzen Thank you very much. Excellent, as usual. I already had the first part, and your second part is crystal clear. +1
$endgroup$
– DonAntonio
Apr 8 '16 at 14:07
$begingroup$
Don't you want "because $deg(x^k^2g)<m^2+d$ for $k<m$ and $x^m^2+d+1 | x^k^2g$ for $k >m$" in the penultimate sentence?
$endgroup$
– Torsten Schoeneberg
Dec 19 '17 at 17:59
add a comment |
$begingroup$
To show that $R(x)$ is a proper subset of $R((x))$, we first need to ignore the "is". Using more precision, I'd prefer to say that $R(x)$ is canonically isomorphic to a proper subring of $R((X))$.
First part: subset
We have a canonical and straightforward map from the ring $R[x]$ of polynomial to the ring $R((X))$ fo formal Laurent series (this does not even require $R$ to be a field) and accordingly identify polynomials with their corresponding power series.
To extend this map to $R(x)$ we need to find, for every non-zero polynomial $fin R[x]$, a series $uin R((x))$ such that $fcdot u=1$.
First consider the case that $f$ has constant term $1$. Then we can define $u_i$, $iinBbb N$, recursively such that for all $n$
$$tag1 f(x)cdot sum_i=0^nu_ix^iin 1+x^nR[x]$$
Indeed, we can just let $u_0=1$ and then recursively let $u_n$ be $-1$ times the coefficient of $x^n$ in the polynomial $f(x)cdotsum_i=0^n-1u_ix^i$.
We obtain a power series $u(x)$ with $f(x)u(x)=1$ as desired.
Now consider general $fne 0$. Then it can be written as $acdot x^kcdot hat f$ where $ain Rsetminus 0$, $kin Bbb N_0$, $hat f$ is a polynomial with constant term $1$.
As just seen, there is a power series $hat u$ with $hat fhat u=1$. Then $u:=a^-1x^-khat u$ is a Laurent series with $fu=1$, as desired. (Here is the only place where we use that $R$ is a field: We need to find $a^-1$).
Remark: Actually, it suffices to know that $R((x))$ is itself a field; which by itself can be proved by finding a multiplicative inverse recursively (almost) precisely as above.
Second part: proper
It suffices to exhibit a single formal Laurent series that cannot be written as quotient of polynomials.
Consider
$$ u(x)=sum_k=0^infty x^k^2 $$
and assume that $u=frac fg$ with $gne 0$, say $g(x)=sum_j=0^d a_jx^j$ with $a_dne 0$.
Pick $mge maxd,1$.
Then in multiplying $u(x)g(x)$ we see that the coefficient of $x^m^2+d$ equals $a_d$ because $deg(x^kg)<m^2+d$ for $k<m$ and $x^m^2+d+1mid x^kg$ for $k>m$. Hence $ug$ has infinitely many nonzero coefficients and is not a polynomial.
$endgroup$
To show that $R(x)$ is a proper subset of $R((x))$, we first need to ignore the "is". Using more precision, I'd prefer to say that $R(x)$ is canonically isomorphic to a proper subring of $R((X))$.
First part: subset
We have a canonical and straightforward map from the ring $R[x]$ of polynomial to the ring $R((X))$ fo formal Laurent series (this does not even require $R$ to be a field) and accordingly identify polynomials with their corresponding power series.
To extend this map to $R(x)$ we need to find, for every non-zero polynomial $fin R[x]$, a series $uin R((x))$ such that $fcdot u=1$.
First consider the case that $f$ has constant term $1$. Then we can define $u_i$, $iinBbb N$, recursively such that for all $n$
$$tag1 f(x)cdot sum_i=0^nu_ix^iin 1+x^nR[x]$$
Indeed, we can just let $u_0=1$ and then recursively let $u_n$ be $-1$ times the coefficient of $x^n$ in the polynomial $f(x)cdotsum_i=0^n-1u_ix^i$.
We obtain a power series $u(x)$ with $f(x)u(x)=1$ as desired.
Now consider general $fne 0$. Then it can be written as $acdot x^kcdot hat f$ where $ain Rsetminus 0$, $kin Bbb N_0$, $hat f$ is a polynomial with constant term $1$.
As just seen, there is a power series $hat u$ with $hat fhat u=1$. Then $u:=a^-1x^-khat u$ is a Laurent series with $fu=1$, as desired. (Here is the only place where we use that $R$ is a field: We need to find $a^-1$).
Remark: Actually, it suffices to know that $R((x))$ is itself a field; which by itself can be proved by finding a multiplicative inverse recursively (almost) precisely as above.
Second part: proper
It suffices to exhibit a single formal Laurent series that cannot be written as quotient of polynomials.
Consider
$$ u(x)=sum_k=0^infty x^k^2 $$
and assume that $u=frac fg$ with $gne 0$, say $g(x)=sum_j=0^d a_jx^j$ with $a_dne 0$.
Pick $mge maxd,1$.
Then in multiplying $u(x)g(x)$ we see that the coefficient of $x^m^2+d$ equals $a_d$ because $deg(x^kg)<m^2+d$ for $k<m$ and $x^m^2+d+1mid x^kg$ for $k>m$. Hence $ug$ has infinitely many nonzero coefficients and is not a polynomial.
answered Apr 7 '16 at 14:16
Hagen von EitzenHagen von Eitzen
283k23273508
283k23273508
$begingroup$
I'm a bit unsure why the years-old answers were deemed to show not enough detail, but here goes another summary of the proof, this time including also the part about "proper".
$endgroup$
– Hagen von Eitzen
Apr 7 '16 at 14:18
$begingroup$
I think it was precisely for the reason of the proper containment, but you can click through the linked question to see for yourself the comments by the user which prompted me. Regards
$endgroup$
– rschwieb
Apr 7 '16 at 16:40
$begingroup$
@HagenvonEitzen Thank you very much. Excellent, as usual. I already had the first part, and your second part is crystal clear. +1
$endgroup$
– DonAntonio
Apr 8 '16 at 14:07
$begingroup$
Don't you want "because $deg(x^k^2g)<m^2+d$ for $k<m$ and $x^m^2+d+1 | x^k^2g$ for $k >m$" in the penultimate sentence?
$endgroup$
– Torsten Schoeneberg
Dec 19 '17 at 17:59
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I'm a bit unsure why the years-old answers were deemed to show not enough detail, but here goes another summary of the proof, this time including also the part about "proper".
$endgroup$
– Hagen von Eitzen
Apr 7 '16 at 14:18
$begingroup$
I think it was precisely for the reason of the proper containment, but you can click through the linked question to see for yourself the comments by the user which prompted me. Regards
$endgroup$
– rschwieb
Apr 7 '16 at 16:40
$begingroup$
@HagenvonEitzen Thank you very much. Excellent, as usual. I already had the first part, and your second part is crystal clear. +1
$endgroup$
– DonAntonio
Apr 8 '16 at 14:07
$begingroup$
Don't you want "because $deg(x^k^2g)<m^2+d$ for $k<m$ and $x^m^2+d+1 | x^k^2g$ for $k >m$" in the penultimate sentence?
$endgroup$
– Torsten Schoeneberg
Dec 19 '17 at 17:59
$begingroup$
I'm a bit unsure why the years-old answers were deemed to show not enough detail, but here goes another summary of the proof, this time including also the part about "proper".
$endgroup$
– Hagen von Eitzen
Apr 7 '16 at 14:18
$begingroup$
I'm a bit unsure why the years-old answers were deemed to show not enough detail, but here goes another summary of the proof, this time including also the part about "proper".
$endgroup$
– Hagen von Eitzen
Apr 7 '16 at 14:18
$begingroup$
I think it was precisely for the reason of the proper containment, but you can click through the linked question to see for yourself the comments by the user which prompted me. Regards
$endgroup$
– rschwieb
Apr 7 '16 at 16:40
$begingroup$
I think it was precisely for the reason of the proper containment, but you can click through the linked question to see for yourself the comments by the user which prompted me. Regards
$endgroup$
– rschwieb
Apr 7 '16 at 16:40
$begingroup$
@HagenvonEitzen Thank you very much. Excellent, as usual. I already had the first part, and your second part is crystal clear. +1
$endgroup$
– DonAntonio
Apr 8 '16 at 14:07
$begingroup$
@HagenvonEitzen Thank you very much. Excellent, as usual. I already had the first part, and your second part is crystal clear. +1
$endgroup$
– DonAntonio
Apr 8 '16 at 14:07
$begingroup$
Don't you want "because $deg(x^k^2g)<m^2+d$ for $k<m$ and $x^m^2+d+1 | x^k^2g$ for $k >m$" in the penultimate sentence?
$endgroup$
– Torsten Schoeneberg
Dec 19 '17 at 17:59
$begingroup$
Don't you want "because $deg(x^k^2g)<m^2+d$ for $k<m$ and $x^m^2+d+1 | x^k^2g$ for $k >m$" in the penultimate sentence?
$endgroup$
– Torsten Schoeneberg
Dec 19 '17 at 17:59
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Hint $rmdisplaystylequad 1: =: (a-xf)(b-xg) Rightarrow ab=1$
$$Rightarrow displaystylermfrac1b-xf = fraca1-axf = a:(1+axf+(axf)^2+(axf)^3+:cdots:)$$
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
Could you explain why this implication/equality follows? I'm afraid that I don't see it =(
$endgroup$
– Nizbel99
Nov 3 '12 at 20:43
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Hint $rmdisplaystylequad 1: =: (a-xf)(b-xg) Rightarrow ab=1$
$$Rightarrow displaystylermfrac1b-xf = fraca1-axf = a:(1+axf+(axf)^2+(axf)^3+:cdots:)$$
$endgroup$
2
$begingroup$
Could you explain why this implication/equality follows? I'm afraid that I don't see it =(
$endgroup$
– Nizbel99
Nov 3 '12 at 20:43
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Hint $rmdisplaystylequad 1: =: (a-xf)(b-xg) Rightarrow ab=1$
$$Rightarrow displaystylermfrac1b-xf = fraca1-axf = a:(1+axf+(axf)^2+(axf)^3+:cdots:)$$
$endgroup$
Hint $rmdisplaystylequad 1: =: (a-xf)(b-xg) Rightarrow ab=1$
$$Rightarrow displaystylermfrac1b-xf = fraca1-axf = a:(1+axf+(axf)^2+(axf)^3+:cdots:)$$
answered Nov 3 '12 at 20:32
Bill DubuqueBill Dubuque
213k29196654
213k29196654
2
$begingroup$
Could you explain why this implication/equality follows? I'm afraid that I don't see it =(
$endgroup$
– Nizbel99
Nov 3 '12 at 20:43
add a comment |
2
$begingroup$
Could you explain why this implication/equality follows? I'm afraid that I don't see it =(
$endgroup$
– Nizbel99
Nov 3 '12 at 20:43
2
2
$begingroup$
Could you explain why this implication/equality follows? I'm afraid that I don't see it =(
$endgroup$
– Nizbel99
Nov 3 '12 at 20:43
$begingroup$
Could you explain why this implication/equality follows? I'm afraid that I don't see it =(
$endgroup$
– Nizbel99
Nov 3 '12 at 20:43
add a comment |
$begingroup$
If your field $R$ is countable, if I am not mistaken, another possible argument is a cardinality argument, probbably (?) under the Axiom of Choice though :
$R[x]$ can be viewed as $bigcup_ninmathbf N R^n$, a countable union of countable sets, so $R[x]$ is countable. Its fraction field $R(x)$ is a quotient of $R[x]times R[x]$, hence countable.
On the other hand $R((x))$ contains "$0,1((x))$", hence has cardinality at least $2^aleph_0$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
If your field $R$ is countable, if I am not mistaken, another possible argument is a cardinality argument, probbably (?) under the Axiom of Choice though :
$R[x]$ can be viewed as $bigcup_ninmathbf N R^n$, a countable union of countable sets, so $R[x]$ is countable. Its fraction field $R(x)$ is a quotient of $R[x]times R[x]$, hence countable.
On the other hand $R((x))$ contains "$0,1((x))$", hence has cardinality at least $2^aleph_0$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
If your field $R$ is countable, if I am not mistaken, another possible argument is a cardinality argument, probbably (?) under the Axiom of Choice though :
$R[x]$ can be viewed as $bigcup_ninmathbf N R^n$, a countable union of countable sets, so $R[x]$ is countable. Its fraction field $R(x)$ is a quotient of $R[x]times R[x]$, hence countable.
On the other hand $R((x))$ contains "$0,1((x))$", hence has cardinality at least $2^aleph_0$.
$endgroup$
If your field $R$ is countable, if I am not mistaken, another possible argument is a cardinality argument, probbably (?) under the Axiom of Choice though :
$R[x]$ can be viewed as $bigcup_ninmathbf N R^n$, a countable union of countable sets, so $R[x]$ is countable. Its fraction field $R(x)$ is a quotient of $R[x]times R[x]$, hence countable.
On the other hand $R((x))$ contains "$0,1((x))$", hence has cardinality at least $2^aleph_0$.
edited Mar 28 at 20:02
answered Mar 28 at 19:50
DrikeDrike
367112
367112
add a comment |
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Mathematics Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function ()
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f228422%2fshowing-that-rx-is-a-proper-subset-of-rx-if-r-is-a-field%23new-answer', 'question_page');
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function ()
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
);
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
2
$begingroup$
Your main concern seem sto be with subset, but you als have to show proper. For the latter, consider the power series for $sin(x)$, for example, and observe that a rational function would have only finitely many zeroes.
$endgroup$
– Hagen von Eitzen
Nov 3 '12 at 20:55
3
$begingroup$
@Hagen: The power series of $sin x$ may not exist, if all those factorials are not invertible in $R$, or equivalently if $R$ has a positive characteristic.
$endgroup$
– Jyrki Lahtonen
Nov 3 '12 at 21:25
$begingroup$
@JyrkiLahtonen: You're right that it may not exist for any ring R, but for my purpose, I can assume that R is a field. So every non-zero element should have an inverse :)
$endgroup$
– Nizbel99
Nov 3 '12 at 21:28
3
$begingroup$
@user43552: Yes, but Jyrki is right. That all nonzero elements are invertible does not mean that e.g. $2$ is invertible because we might have $2=0$. Thus you need a different approach to show that the subset is proper. I suggest $$f(x)=sum_n=0^infty x^n!.$$ Whatever polynomial $q(x)$ you assume as denominator, the gappy high order terms of $q(x)f(x)$ do not cancel, hence $q(x)f(x)$ is not a polynomial.
$endgroup$
– Hagen von Eitzen
Nov 3 '12 at 21:47
4
$begingroup$
@Hagen: You might flesh that counterexample out to an answer.
$endgroup$
– Jyrki Lahtonen
Nov 4 '12 at 11:50