Confusion on Rudin's Principles of Mathematical Analysis, Ex 4.1 The 2019 Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results Are InBaby Rudin Chapter 4 Exercise 1Part of proof 11.10 in Rudin's Principles of Mathematical AnalysisTheorem 2.13 in Walter Rudin's Principles of Mathematical AnalysisTheorem 1.20b in Rudin's Principles of Mathematical Analysisrudin's principles of mathematical analysis 10.31$lim_x to +infty f(x), lim_x to -infty f(x)$ both exist and are finite, $f$ uniformly continuousreal analysis question on equicontinuityTransition from Introductory Proofs/Logic Course to the Proofs in Rudin's Principles of AnalysisiEquation in Rudin's 1.1.3 (Principles of Mathematical Analysis)Prove irrational number, Rudin's first example in Principles of Mathematical AnalysisRudin mathematical analysis chapter 4 exercise 6 solution
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Confusion on Rudin's Principles of Mathematical Analysis, Ex 4.1
The 2019 Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results Are InBaby Rudin Chapter 4 Exercise 1Part of proof 11.10 in Rudin's Principles of Mathematical AnalysisTheorem 2.13 in Walter Rudin's Principles of Mathematical AnalysisTheorem 1.20b in Rudin's Principles of Mathematical Analysisrudin's principles of mathematical analysis 10.31$lim_x to +infty f(x), lim_x to -infty f(x)$ both exist and are finite, $f$ uniformly continuousreal analysis question on equicontinuityTransition from Introductory Proofs/Logic Course to the Proofs in Rudin's Principles of AnalysisiEquation in Rudin's 1.1.3 (Principles of Mathematical Analysis)Prove irrational number, Rudin's first example in Principles of Mathematical AnalysisRudin mathematical analysis chapter 4 exercise 6 solution
$begingroup$
I am trying to solve the following exercise in Rudin's "Rudin's Principles of Mathematical Analysis" book: (Ex 4.1)
Suppose $f$ is a real function defined on $R^1$ which satisfies
$$lim_hto 0[f(x+h)-f(x-h)]=0$$
for every $xin R^1$. Does this imply that $f$ is continuous?
The answer to this question is simply no, and it can be proved by using the function $f(x) = 1$ if $xin mathbbZ$ and $f(x) =0$, otherwise.
However, I am a little bit confused by this result, since I obtain the contrary by using the definitions of limits and continuity. In particular, I have the following derivation:
Define the function $$g(h) := f(x+h) - f(x-h)$$ for a fixed x. Then the hypothesis implies that $$lim_hto 0g(h)=0.$$ By using the definition of the limit, we have that $forall varepsilon >0$, $exists delta>0$, such that $|g(h)| < varepsilon$ and $|h|< delta/2$.
Now let $p, q in mathbbR$. Assume $p < q$, without loss of generality. Define $h := fracq-p2$, $x := fracq+p2$. Fix $varepsilon >0$. Then, for $$|f(q)- f(p)| = |f(x+h)-f(x-h)| < varepsilon,$$
we know that
$$|q-p| = |x+h-x+h| = 2 |h| < delta.$$ Hence, $f$ is continuous.
My question is: in which part of this derivation I am making a mistake?
Please note that there have been other questions regarding this exercise, for instance see this. However, I have a different concern, whose solution I think could be useful for other people.
real-analysis
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I am trying to solve the following exercise in Rudin's "Rudin's Principles of Mathematical Analysis" book: (Ex 4.1)
Suppose $f$ is a real function defined on $R^1$ which satisfies
$$lim_hto 0[f(x+h)-f(x-h)]=0$$
for every $xin R^1$. Does this imply that $f$ is continuous?
The answer to this question is simply no, and it can be proved by using the function $f(x) = 1$ if $xin mathbbZ$ and $f(x) =0$, otherwise.
However, I am a little bit confused by this result, since I obtain the contrary by using the definitions of limits and continuity. In particular, I have the following derivation:
Define the function $$g(h) := f(x+h) - f(x-h)$$ for a fixed x. Then the hypothesis implies that $$lim_hto 0g(h)=0.$$ By using the definition of the limit, we have that $forall varepsilon >0$, $exists delta>0$, such that $|g(h)| < varepsilon$ and $|h|< delta/2$.
Now let $p, q in mathbbR$. Assume $p < q$, without loss of generality. Define $h := fracq-p2$, $x := fracq+p2$. Fix $varepsilon >0$. Then, for $$|f(q)- f(p)| = |f(x+h)-f(x-h)| < varepsilon,$$
we know that
$$|q-p| = |x+h-x+h| = 2 |h| < delta.$$ Hence, $f$ is continuous.
My question is: in which part of this derivation I am making a mistake?
Please note that there have been other questions regarding this exercise, for instance see this. However, I have a different concern, whose solution I think could be useful for other people.
real-analysis
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Why do you make $x=(q+p)/2$ isnt it fixed?
$endgroup$
– ILoveMath
Mar 30 at 21:25
$begingroup$
I'm not sure if I understood the question. After fixing p and q, I am choosing an x which enables me to use the hypothesis. Is this an answer?
$endgroup$
– thmusic
Mar 30 at 21:27
$begingroup$
Im very confused than we you say in the third line : for fixed x
$endgroup$
– ILoveMath
Mar 30 at 21:28
$begingroup$
I wanted to say it holds for any $x$.
$endgroup$
– thmusic
Mar 30 at 21:37
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I am trying to solve the following exercise in Rudin's "Rudin's Principles of Mathematical Analysis" book: (Ex 4.1)
Suppose $f$ is a real function defined on $R^1$ which satisfies
$$lim_hto 0[f(x+h)-f(x-h)]=0$$
for every $xin R^1$. Does this imply that $f$ is continuous?
The answer to this question is simply no, and it can be proved by using the function $f(x) = 1$ if $xin mathbbZ$ and $f(x) =0$, otherwise.
However, I am a little bit confused by this result, since I obtain the contrary by using the definitions of limits and continuity. In particular, I have the following derivation:
Define the function $$g(h) := f(x+h) - f(x-h)$$ for a fixed x. Then the hypothesis implies that $$lim_hto 0g(h)=0.$$ By using the definition of the limit, we have that $forall varepsilon >0$, $exists delta>0$, such that $|g(h)| < varepsilon$ and $|h|< delta/2$.
Now let $p, q in mathbbR$. Assume $p < q$, without loss of generality. Define $h := fracq-p2$, $x := fracq+p2$. Fix $varepsilon >0$. Then, for $$|f(q)- f(p)| = |f(x+h)-f(x-h)| < varepsilon,$$
we know that
$$|q-p| = |x+h-x+h| = 2 |h| < delta.$$ Hence, $f$ is continuous.
My question is: in which part of this derivation I am making a mistake?
Please note that there have been other questions regarding this exercise, for instance see this. However, I have a different concern, whose solution I think could be useful for other people.
real-analysis
$endgroup$
I am trying to solve the following exercise in Rudin's "Rudin's Principles of Mathematical Analysis" book: (Ex 4.1)
Suppose $f$ is a real function defined on $R^1$ which satisfies
$$lim_hto 0[f(x+h)-f(x-h)]=0$$
for every $xin R^1$. Does this imply that $f$ is continuous?
The answer to this question is simply no, and it can be proved by using the function $f(x) = 1$ if $xin mathbbZ$ and $f(x) =0$, otherwise.
However, I am a little bit confused by this result, since I obtain the contrary by using the definitions of limits and continuity. In particular, I have the following derivation:
Define the function $$g(h) := f(x+h) - f(x-h)$$ for a fixed x. Then the hypothesis implies that $$lim_hto 0g(h)=0.$$ By using the definition of the limit, we have that $forall varepsilon >0$, $exists delta>0$, such that $|g(h)| < varepsilon$ and $|h|< delta/2$.
Now let $p, q in mathbbR$. Assume $p < q$, without loss of generality. Define $h := fracq-p2$, $x := fracq+p2$. Fix $varepsilon >0$. Then, for $$|f(q)- f(p)| = |f(x+h)-f(x-h)| < varepsilon,$$
we know that
$$|q-p| = |x+h-x+h| = 2 |h| < delta.$$ Hence, $f$ is continuous.
My question is: in which part of this derivation I am making a mistake?
Please note that there have been other questions regarding this exercise, for instance see this. However, I have a different concern, whose solution I think could be useful for other people.
real-analysis
real-analysis
asked Mar 30 at 21:17
thmusicthmusic
9710
9710
$begingroup$
Why do you make $x=(q+p)/2$ isnt it fixed?
$endgroup$
– ILoveMath
Mar 30 at 21:25
$begingroup$
I'm not sure if I understood the question. After fixing p and q, I am choosing an x which enables me to use the hypothesis. Is this an answer?
$endgroup$
– thmusic
Mar 30 at 21:27
$begingroup$
Im very confused than we you say in the third line : for fixed x
$endgroup$
– ILoveMath
Mar 30 at 21:28
$begingroup$
I wanted to say it holds for any $x$.
$endgroup$
– thmusic
Mar 30 at 21:37
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Why do you make $x=(q+p)/2$ isnt it fixed?
$endgroup$
– ILoveMath
Mar 30 at 21:25
$begingroup$
I'm not sure if I understood the question. After fixing p and q, I am choosing an x which enables me to use the hypothesis. Is this an answer?
$endgroup$
– thmusic
Mar 30 at 21:27
$begingroup$
Im very confused than we you say in the third line : for fixed x
$endgroup$
– ILoveMath
Mar 30 at 21:28
$begingroup$
I wanted to say it holds for any $x$.
$endgroup$
– thmusic
Mar 30 at 21:37
$begingroup$
Why do you make $x=(q+p)/2$ isnt it fixed?
$endgroup$
– ILoveMath
Mar 30 at 21:25
$begingroup$
Why do you make $x=(q+p)/2$ isnt it fixed?
$endgroup$
– ILoveMath
Mar 30 at 21:25
$begingroup$
I'm not sure if I understood the question. After fixing p and q, I am choosing an x which enables me to use the hypothesis. Is this an answer?
$endgroup$
– thmusic
Mar 30 at 21:27
$begingroup$
I'm not sure if I understood the question. After fixing p and q, I am choosing an x which enables me to use the hypothesis. Is this an answer?
$endgroup$
– thmusic
Mar 30 at 21:27
$begingroup$
Im very confused than we you say in the third line : for fixed x
$endgroup$
– ILoveMath
Mar 30 at 21:28
$begingroup$
Im very confused than we you say in the third line : for fixed x
$endgroup$
– ILoveMath
Mar 30 at 21:28
$begingroup$
I wanted to say it holds for any $x$.
$endgroup$
– thmusic
Mar 30 at 21:37
$begingroup$
I wanted to say it holds for any $x$.
$endgroup$
– thmusic
Mar 30 at 21:37
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
The error lies in “Hence, $f$ is continuous.” There is nothing before that assertion that justifies it. Proving that $f$ is continuous means proving that, for every $xinmathbb R$ and every $varepsilon>0$, there is a $delta>0$ such that $lvert hrvert<deltaimpliesbigllvert f(x+h)-f(x)bigrrvert<varepsilon$, and you did not prove that.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Def 4.5 in Rudin reads: $f$ is continuous at $p$ means $forall varepsilon$, $exists delta$, such that $|f(x) - f(p)|<varepsilon$ for which $|x-p|<delta$. I think the derivation I wrote agrees with this definition?
$endgroup$
– thmusic
Mar 30 at 21:35
1
$begingroup$
It is the other way around: if $lvert x-prvert<delta$, then $bigllvert f(x)-f(p)bigrrvert<varepsilon$.
$endgroup$
– José Carlos Santos
Mar 30 at 21:42
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I think what is confusing you is that you showed something that looks like continuity, but is in fact not. To show that $f$ is continuous, we would have to show that $f$ is continuous at $x$ for each $x$. That would involve showing that $pmbf(x+h)-f(x)$ can be made arbitrarily small by taking $h$ sufficiently small.
This is what your proof does not show: instead you demonstrated that $pmb$ can be made arbitrarily small by taking $h$ sufficiently small, which is actually just the condition $$lim_hto0[f(x+h)-f(x-h)] = 0.$$
$endgroup$
add a comment |
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2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
The error lies in “Hence, $f$ is continuous.” There is nothing before that assertion that justifies it. Proving that $f$ is continuous means proving that, for every $xinmathbb R$ and every $varepsilon>0$, there is a $delta>0$ such that $lvert hrvert<deltaimpliesbigllvert f(x+h)-f(x)bigrrvert<varepsilon$, and you did not prove that.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Def 4.5 in Rudin reads: $f$ is continuous at $p$ means $forall varepsilon$, $exists delta$, such that $|f(x) - f(p)|<varepsilon$ for which $|x-p|<delta$. I think the derivation I wrote agrees with this definition?
$endgroup$
– thmusic
Mar 30 at 21:35
1
$begingroup$
It is the other way around: if $lvert x-prvert<delta$, then $bigllvert f(x)-f(p)bigrrvert<varepsilon$.
$endgroup$
– José Carlos Santos
Mar 30 at 21:42
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The error lies in “Hence, $f$ is continuous.” There is nothing before that assertion that justifies it. Proving that $f$ is continuous means proving that, for every $xinmathbb R$ and every $varepsilon>0$, there is a $delta>0$ such that $lvert hrvert<deltaimpliesbigllvert f(x+h)-f(x)bigrrvert<varepsilon$, and you did not prove that.
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Def 4.5 in Rudin reads: $f$ is continuous at $p$ means $forall varepsilon$, $exists delta$, such that $|f(x) - f(p)|<varepsilon$ for which $|x-p|<delta$. I think the derivation I wrote agrees with this definition?
$endgroup$
– thmusic
Mar 30 at 21:35
1
$begingroup$
It is the other way around: if $lvert x-prvert<delta$, then $bigllvert f(x)-f(p)bigrrvert<varepsilon$.
$endgroup$
– José Carlos Santos
Mar 30 at 21:42
add a comment |
$begingroup$
The error lies in “Hence, $f$ is continuous.” There is nothing before that assertion that justifies it. Proving that $f$ is continuous means proving that, for every $xinmathbb R$ and every $varepsilon>0$, there is a $delta>0$ such that $lvert hrvert<deltaimpliesbigllvert f(x+h)-f(x)bigrrvert<varepsilon$, and you did not prove that.
$endgroup$
The error lies in “Hence, $f$ is continuous.” There is nothing before that assertion that justifies it. Proving that $f$ is continuous means proving that, for every $xinmathbb R$ and every $varepsilon>0$, there is a $delta>0$ such that $lvert hrvert<deltaimpliesbigllvert f(x+h)-f(x)bigrrvert<varepsilon$, and you did not prove that.
answered Mar 30 at 21:25
José Carlos SantosJosé Carlos Santos
174k23133242
174k23133242
1
$begingroup$
Def 4.5 in Rudin reads: $f$ is continuous at $p$ means $forall varepsilon$, $exists delta$, such that $|f(x) - f(p)|<varepsilon$ for which $|x-p|<delta$. I think the derivation I wrote agrees with this definition?
$endgroup$
– thmusic
Mar 30 at 21:35
1
$begingroup$
It is the other way around: if $lvert x-prvert<delta$, then $bigllvert f(x)-f(p)bigrrvert<varepsilon$.
$endgroup$
– José Carlos Santos
Mar 30 at 21:42
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
Def 4.5 in Rudin reads: $f$ is continuous at $p$ means $forall varepsilon$, $exists delta$, such that $|f(x) - f(p)|<varepsilon$ for which $|x-p|<delta$. I think the derivation I wrote agrees with this definition?
$endgroup$
– thmusic
Mar 30 at 21:35
1
$begingroup$
It is the other way around: if $lvert x-prvert<delta$, then $bigllvert f(x)-f(p)bigrrvert<varepsilon$.
$endgroup$
– José Carlos Santos
Mar 30 at 21:42
1
1
$begingroup$
Def 4.5 in Rudin reads: $f$ is continuous at $p$ means $forall varepsilon$, $exists delta$, such that $|f(x) - f(p)|<varepsilon$ for which $|x-p|<delta$. I think the derivation I wrote agrees with this definition?
$endgroup$
– thmusic
Mar 30 at 21:35
$begingroup$
Def 4.5 in Rudin reads: $f$ is continuous at $p$ means $forall varepsilon$, $exists delta$, such that $|f(x) - f(p)|<varepsilon$ for which $|x-p|<delta$. I think the derivation I wrote agrees with this definition?
$endgroup$
– thmusic
Mar 30 at 21:35
1
1
$begingroup$
It is the other way around: if $lvert x-prvert<delta$, then $bigllvert f(x)-f(p)bigrrvert<varepsilon$.
$endgroup$
– José Carlos Santos
Mar 30 at 21:42
$begingroup$
It is the other way around: if $lvert x-prvert<delta$, then $bigllvert f(x)-f(p)bigrrvert<varepsilon$.
$endgroup$
– José Carlos Santos
Mar 30 at 21:42
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I think what is confusing you is that you showed something that looks like continuity, but is in fact not. To show that $f$ is continuous, we would have to show that $f$ is continuous at $x$ for each $x$. That would involve showing that $pmbf(x+h)-f(x)$ can be made arbitrarily small by taking $h$ sufficiently small.
This is what your proof does not show: instead you demonstrated that $pmb$ can be made arbitrarily small by taking $h$ sufficiently small, which is actually just the condition $$lim_hto0[f(x+h)-f(x-h)] = 0.$$
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I think what is confusing you is that you showed something that looks like continuity, but is in fact not. To show that $f$ is continuous, we would have to show that $f$ is continuous at $x$ for each $x$. That would involve showing that $pmbf(x+h)-f(x)$ can be made arbitrarily small by taking $h$ sufficiently small.
This is what your proof does not show: instead you demonstrated that $pmb$ can be made arbitrarily small by taking $h$ sufficiently small, which is actually just the condition $$lim_hto0[f(x+h)-f(x-h)] = 0.$$
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I think what is confusing you is that you showed something that looks like continuity, but is in fact not. To show that $f$ is continuous, we would have to show that $f$ is continuous at $x$ for each $x$. That would involve showing that $pmbf(x+h)-f(x)$ can be made arbitrarily small by taking $h$ sufficiently small.
This is what your proof does not show: instead you demonstrated that $pmb$ can be made arbitrarily small by taking $h$ sufficiently small, which is actually just the condition $$lim_hto0[f(x+h)-f(x-h)] = 0.$$
$endgroup$
I think what is confusing you is that you showed something that looks like continuity, but is in fact not. To show that $f$ is continuous, we would have to show that $f$ is continuous at $x$ for each $x$. That would involve showing that $pmbf(x+h)-f(x)$ can be made arbitrarily small by taking $h$ sufficiently small.
This is what your proof does not show: instead you demonstrated that $pmb$ can be made arbitrarily small by taking $h$ sufficiently small, which is actually just the condition $$lim_hto0[f(x+h)-f(x-h)] = 0.$$
answered Mar 30 at 21:46
Alex OrtizAlex Ortiz
11.4k21442
11.4k21442
add a comment |
add a comment |
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$begingroup$
Why do you make $x=(q+p)/2$ isnt it fixed?
$endgroup$
– ILoveMath
Mar 30 at 21:25
$begingroup$
I'm not sure if I understood the question. After fixing p and q, I am choosing an x which enables me to use the hypothesis. Is this an answer?
$endgroup$
– thmusic
Mar 30 at 21:27
$begingroup$
Im very confused than we you say in the third line : for fixed x
$endgroup$
– ILoveMath
Mar 30 at 21:28
$begingroup$
I wanted to say it holds for any $x$.
$endgroup$
– thmusic
Mar 30 at 21:37