Proving that $displaystylelim _ntoinfty frac1n^2 = 0$ using limit arithmetic Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara Planned maintenance scheduled April 23, 2019 at 23:30 UTC (7:30pm US/Eastern)Limit: $limlimits_xtopi/2^+ fracln(x-pi/2)tan(x)$ using De l'Hôpital's rule?Proving that the limit $ limlimits_nrightarrow infty (n!)^frac1n$ diverges to infinityWhy “$limlimits_xrightarrow infty fracx+sin xx$ does not exist” is not an acceptable answer?How to formally prove that if $lim limits_n to inftya_n=infty$, then $lim limits_n to inftyfrac1a_n=0$.Using sequence limits arithmetic rules to prove convergence of a sequenceConvergence of $sumlimits_n=1^inftyfracn^3(sqrt2+(-1)^n)^n3^n$$sum_n=1^inftyfrac1cdot 4cdot 7cdots (3n+1)n^5$Calculating $lim_ntoinftyfracn!n^n$Calculating limit $limlimits_xtoinftyfrac3x^2-frac3x^2+1-4f'(x)f(x)$ for an unknown function.If $a_n+1=frac3+a_n^2a_n+1$ and $a_1=1$, then what is $limlimits_ntoinftyleft(frac43right)^n(3-a_n)$?

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Proving that $displaystylelim _ntoinfty frac1n^2 = 0$ using limit arithmetic



Announcing the arrival of Valued Associate #679: Cesar Manara
Planned maintenance scheduled April 23, 2019 at 23:30 UTC (7:30pm US/Eastern)Limit: $limlimits_xtopi/2^+ fracln(x-pi/2)tan(x)$ using De l'Hôpital's rule?Proving that the limit $ limlimits_nrightarrow infty (n!)^frac1n$ diverges to infinityWhy “$limlimits_xrightarrow infty fracx+sin xx$ does not exist” is not an acceptable answer?How to formally prove that if $lim limits_n to inftya_n=infty$, then $lim limits_n to inftyfrac1a_n=0$.Using sequence limits arithmetic rules to prove convergence of a sequenceConvergence of $sumlimits_n=1^inftyfracn^3(sqrt2+(-1)^n)^n3^n$$sum_n=1^inftyfrac1cdot 4cdot 7cdots (3n+1)n^5$Calculating $lim_ntoinftyfracn!n^n$Calculating limit $limlimits_xtoinftyfrac3x^2-frac3x^2+1-4f'(x)f(x)$ for an unknown function.If $a_n+1=frac3+a_n^2a_n+1$ and $a_1=1$, then what is $limlimits_ntoinftyleft(frac43right)^n(3-a_n)$?










1












$begingroup$


Let $n in mathbbN$ be the index of sequence $frac1n^2_n=1^infty$.



I'm assuming that:
$$displaystylelim _ntoinfty frac1n^2 = fracdisplaystylelim _ntoinfty 1displaystylelim _ntoinftyn^2, displaystylelim _ntoinftyn^2 neq 0$$



The problem is, after I prove that the limit of the numerator is 1, I cannot prove that the denominator has a limit because it's a fluttering/divergent sequence. Having no limit, and striving towards infinity, how can I possibly do limit arithmetic on them?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$











  • $begingroup$
    What is a fluttering sequence?
    $endgroup$
    – Thomas Andrews
    Apr 2 at 15:41










  • $begingroup$
    You can't assume lim (f/g) = lim(f)/lim(g) if lim(g) is not defined
    $endgroup$
    – J. W. Tanner
    Apr 2 at 15:41










  • $begingroup$
    @J.W.Tanner Forgot to include that, thanks.
    $endgroup$
    – daedsidog
    Apr 2 at 15:42










  • $begingroup$
    Why can't you just use $1/infty=0$?
    $endgroup$
    – Andrei
    Apr 2 at 15:44






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Why not use the delta epsilon argument. (I hate people saying things like $frac 1infty = 0$ but you do know that is so.)
    $endgroup$
    – fleablood
    Apr 2 at 15:50















1












$begingroup$


Let $n in mathbbN$ be the index of sequence $frac1n^2_n=1^infty$.



I'm assuming that:
$$displaystylelim _ntoinfty frac1n^2 = fracdisplaystylelim _ntoinfty 1displaystylelim _ntoinftyn^2, displaystylelim _ntoinftyn^2 neq 0$$



The problem is, after I prove that the limit of the numerator is 1, I cannot prove that the denominator has a limit because it's a fluttering/divergent sequence. Having no limit, and striving towards infinity, how can I possibly do limit arithmetic on them?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$











  • $begingroup$
    What is a fluttering sequence?
    $endgroup$
    – Thomas Andrews
    Apr 2 at 15:41










  • $begingroup$
    You can't assume lim (f/g) = lim(f)/lim(g) if lim(g) is not defined
    $endgroup$
    – J. W. Tanner
    Apr 2 at 15:41










  • $begingroup$
    @J.W.Tanner Forgot to include that, thanks.
    $endgroup$
    – daedsidog
    Apr 2 at 15:42










  • $begingroup$
    Why can't you just use $1/infty=0$?
    $endgroup$
    – Andrei
    Apr 2 at 15:44






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Why not use the delta epsilon argument. (I hate people saying things like $frac 1infty = 0$ but you do know that is so.)
    $endgroup$
    – fleablood
    Apr 2 at 15:50













1












1








1


1



$begingroup$


Let $n in mathbbN$ be the index of sequence $frac1n^2_n=1^infty$.



I'm assuming that:
$$displaystylelim _ntoinfty frac1n^2 = fracdisplaystylelim _ntoinfty 1displaystylelim _ntoinftyn^2, displaystylelim _ntoinftyn^2 neq 0$$



The problem is, after I prove that the limit of the numerator is 1, I cannot prove that the denominator has a limit because it's a fluttering/divergent sequence. Having no limit, and striving towards infinity, how can I possibly do limit arithmetic on them?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




Let $n in mathbbN$ be the index of sequence $frac1n^2_n=1^infty$.



I'm assuming that:
$$displaystylelim _ntoinfty frac1n^2 = fracdisplaystylelim _ntoinfty 1displaystylelim _ntoinftyn^2, displaystylelim _ntoinftyn^2 neq 0$$



The problem is, after I prove that the limit of the numerator is 1, I cannot prove that the denominator has a limit because it's a fluttering/divergent sequence. Having no limit, and striving towards infinity, how can I possibly do limit arithmetic on them?







sequences-and-series limits






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited Apr 2 at 15:46







daedsidog

















asked Apr 2 at 15:39









daedsidogdaedsidog

40628




40628











  • $begingroup$
    What is a fluttering sequence?
    $endgroup$
    – Thomas Andrews
    Apr 2 at 15:41










  • $begingroup$
    You can't assume lim (f/g) = lim(f)/lim(g) if lim(g) is not defined
    $endgroup$
    – J. W. Tanner
    Apr 2 at 15:41










  • $begingroup$
    @J.W.Tanner Forgot to include that, thanks.
    $endgroup$
    – daedsidog
    Apr 2 at 15:42










  • $begingroup$
    Why can't you just use $1/infty=0$?
    $endgroup$
    – Andrei
    Apr 2 at 15:44






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Why not use the delta epsilon argument. (I hate people saying things like $frac 1infty = 0$ but you do know that is so.)
    $endgroup$
    – fleablood
    Apr 2 at 15:50
















  • $begingroup$
    What is a fluttering sequence?
    $endgroup$
    – Thomas Andrews
    Apr 2 at 15:41










  • $begingroup$
    You can't assume lim (f/g) = lim(f)/lim(g) if lim(g) is not defined
    $endgroup$
    – J. W. Tanner
    Apr 2 at 15:41










  • $begingroup$
    @J.W.Tanner Forgot to include that, thanks.
    $endgroup$
    – daedsidog
    Apr 2 at 15:42










  • $begingroup$
    Why can't you just use $1/infty=0$?
    $endgroup$
    – Andrei
    Apr 2 at 15:44






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Why not use the delta epsilon argument. (I hate people saying things like $frac 1infty = 0$ but you do know that is so.)
    $endgroup$
    – fleablood
    Apr 2 at 15:50















$begingroup$
What is a fluttering sequence?
$endgroup$
– Thomas Andrews
Apr 2 at 15:41




$begingroup$
What is a fluttering sequence?
$endgroup$
– Thomas Andrews
Apr 2 at 15:41












$begingroup$
You can't assume lim (f/g) = lim(f)/lim(g) if lim(g) is not defined
$endgroup$
– J. W. Tanner
Apr 2 at 15:41




$begingroup$
You can't assume lim (f/g) = lim(f)/lim(g) if lim(g) is not defined
$endgroup$
– J. W. Tanner
Apr 2 at 15:41












$begingroup$
@J.W.Tanner Forgot to include that, thanks.
$endgroup$
– daedsidog
Apr 2 at 15:42




$begingroup$
@J.W.Tanner Forgot to include that, thanks.
$endgroup$
– daedsidog
Apr 2 at 15:42












$begingroup$
Why can't you just use $1/infty=0$?
$endgroup$
– Andrei
Apr 2 at 15:44




$begingroup$
Why can't you just use $1/infty=0$?
$endgroup$
– Andrei
Apr 2 at 15:44




1




1




$begingroup$
Why not use the delta epsilon argument. (I hate people saying things like $frac 1infty = 0$ but you do know that is so.)
$endgroup$
– fleablood
Apr 2 at 15:50




$begingroup$
Why not use the delta epsilon argument. (I hate people saying things like $frac 1infty = 0$ but you do know that is so.)
$endgroup$
– fleablood
Apr 2 at 15:50










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















3












$begingroup$

The identity
$$lim_nrightarrowinftyfraca_nb_n=fraclimlimits_nrightarrowinftya_nlimlimits_nrightarrowinftyb_n$$
does not hold when the limits on the RHS don't exist (or when the limit in the denominator would be $0$). The limit $lim_nrightarrowinftyn^2$ does not exist as the sequence is divergent, so you can not use the above identity. A valid way way to do limit arithmetic would be
$$lim_nrightarrowinftyfrac1n^2=left(lim_nrightarrowinftyfrac1nright)cdotleft(lim_nrightarrowinftyfrac1nright).$$
In this case, interchanging limit and product is possible, because the limits on the RHS each exist. They, of course, evaluate to $0$ and hence so does the original limit.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    How did you ever figure that $lim frac 1n = 0$ though in the first place? .... I'm a bit confused about what the OP has and hasn't been taught about limits in the first place and what "arithmetic of limits" is supposed to mean? Why is $frac 1infty = 0$ "bad" but $lim frac 1n = infty$ utterly unquestioned?... Actually by this question, I don't even know if the OP has a definition of what a limit means.
    $endgroup$
    – fleablood
    Apr 2 at 16:28











  • $begingroup$
    I assume limit arithmetic refers to the standard results that if $lim a_n=a,lim b_n=b$, then $lim(a_n+b_n)=a+b,lim(a_nb_n)=ab$ and, granted $bneq0$, $lim(a_n/b_n)=a/b$. Of course, the limit $lim 1/n=0$ has to be proven beforehand, but it is the single most archetypical example of a limit, usually presented right after the definition thereof, so if OP already knows limit arithmetic, I thought it's justified to assume that limit is known. Of course, I would've provided proof of that if requested.
    $endgroup$
    – Thorgott
    Apr 2 at 16:42










  • $begingroup$
    I guess I'm finding second guessing these things as unquestioned givens is perplexing to me. I have no idea what the OP has and has not been taught. If we do all these things and take it for granted limits distribute over arithmetic without proving why, and even to use limits without actually defining what a limit is, then I don't see why we don't just go all the way with the handwaving and just teach $frac 1infty =0$ and $frac 10 = infty$. They all seem like hand waving abuse of concept to me.
    $endgroup$
    – fleablood
    Apr 2 at 16:50










  • $begingroup$
    Well, when I looked at OP's question, what I saw was a misapplication of limit arithmetic due to neglecting the hypotheses, so the point of my answer was to restate that these arithmetic rules can't be applied mindlessly and an alternative way of how to use them to reduce the problem to something that is (or should be) already known. If OP is getting rigorous exposure to math, that will be congruent with what they've been taught. If that is not the case, I'm afraid hand-waving is inevitable at some point, though I fully agree with you that it is bad practice.
    $endgroup$
    – Thorgott
    Apr 2 at 17:13


















1












$begingroup$

Just do delta-epsilon. There's no trick.



For any $epsilon> 0$ let $N ge frac 1sqrtepsilon$.



If $n > N$ then $|frac 1n^2 - 0| =frac 1n^2 < frac 1N^2 = epsilon$.



So $lim_nto inftyfrac 1n^2 = 0$.



That's it.



=====



In general, you should have one time or another have been presented with a proof that




if $lim f(n) = +infty$ then $lim frac 1f(n) = 0$.




The proof would be: As $lim_nto a f(n)=+infty$ then for any $N$ there is a condition for $n$ so that $f(n) > N$. [If $lim_nto a f(n) = infty$ the condition is there is a $delta$ so tha $|n-a| < delta$ will mean $f(n) >N$. If $lim_nto infty f(n) = infty$ the condition is there is a $M$ so that $n > M$ will mean $f(n) > N$].



For any $epsilon > 0$ let $N = frac 1epsilon$ then if $n$ has the condition we know $f(n) > N$ so $frac 1f(n) < epsilon$. So $lim frac 1f(n) = 0$.



....



So if we assume $lim_nto infty n^2 = infty$ (which is either very clear; or provable as for any $N>0$ if $n > sqrtN implies n^2 > N$) we know the $lim_nto inftyfrac 1n^2 = 0$.



This is why we informally say $frac 1infty = 0$. But that is informal and too many people say it without knowing what it means.






share|cite|improve this answer











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    2 Answers
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    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes









    3












    $begingroup$

    The identity
    $$lim_nrightarrowinftyfraca_nb_n=fraclimlimits_nrightarrowinftya_nlimlimits_nrightarrowinftyb_n$$
    does not hold when the limits on the RHS don't exist (or when the limit in the denominator would be $0$). The limit $lim_nrightarrowinftyn^2$ does not exist as the sequence is divergent, so you can not use the above identity. A valid way way to do limit arithmetic would be
    $$lim_nrightarrowinftyfrac1n^2=left(lim_nrightarrowinftyfrac1nright)cdotleft(lim_nrightarrowinftyfrac1nright).$$
    In this case, interchanging limit and product is possible, because the limits on the RHS each exist. They, of course, evaluate to $0$ and hence so does the original limit.






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$












    • $begingroup$
      How did you ever figure that $lim frac 1n = 0$ though in the first place? .... I'm a bit confused about what the OP has and hasn't been taught about limits in the first place and what "arithmetic of limits" is supposed to mean? Why is $frac 1infty = 0$ "bad" but $lim frac 1n = infty$ utterly unquestioned?... Actually by this question, I don't even know if the OP has a definition of what a limit means.
      $endgroup$
      – fleablood
      Apr 2 at 16:28











    • $begingroup$
      I assume limit arithmetic refers to the standard results that if $lim a_n=a,lim b_n=b$, then $lim(a_n+b_n)=a+b,lim(a_nb_n)=ab$ and, granted $bneq0$, $lim(a_n/b_n)=a/b$. Of course, the limit $lim 1/n=0$ has to be proven beforehand, but it is the single most archetypical example of a limit, usually presented right after the definition thereof, so if OP already knows limit arithmetic, I thought it's justified to assume that limit is known. Of course, I would've provided proof of that if requested.
      $endgroup$
      – Thorgott
      Apr 2 at 16:42










    • $begingroup$
      I guess I'm finding second guessing these things as unquestioned givens is perplexing to me. I have no idea what the OP has and has not been taught. If we do all these things and take it for granted limits distribute over arithmetic without proving why, and even to use limits without actually defining what a limit is, then I don't see why we don't just go all the way with the handwaving and just teach $frac 1infty =0$ and $frac 10 = infty$. They all seem like hand waving abuse of concept to me.
      $endgroup$
      – fleablood
      Apr 2 at 16:50










    • $begingroup$
      Well, when I looked at OP's question, what I saw was a misapplication of limit arithmetic due to neglecting the hypotheses, so the point of my answer was to restate that these arithmetic rules can't be applied mindlessly and an alternative way of how to use them to reduce the problem to something that is (or should be) already known. If OP is getting rigorous exposure to math, that will be congruent with what they've been taught. If that is not the case, I'm afraid hand-waving is inevitable at some point, though I fully agree with you that it is bad practice.
      $endgroup$
      – Thorgott
      Apr 2 at 17:13















    3












    $begingroup$

    The identity
    $$lim_nrightarrowinftyfraca_nb_n=fraclimlimits_nrightarrowinftya_nlimlimits_nrightarrowinftyb_n$$
    does not hold when the limits on the RHS don't exist (or when the limit in the denominator would be $0$). The limit $lim_nrightarrowinftyn^2$ does not exist as the sequence is divergent, so you can not use the above identity. A valid way way to do limit arithmetic would be
    $$lim_nrightarrowinftyfrac1n^2=left(lim_nrightarrowinftyfrac1nright)cdotleft(lim_nrightarrowinftyfrac1nright).$$
    In this case, interchanging limit and product is possible, because the limits on the RHS each exist. They, of course, evaluate to $0$ and hence so does the original limit.






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$












    • $begingroup$
      How did you ever figure that $lim frac 1n = 0$ though in the first place? .... I'm a bit confused about what the OP has and hasn't been taught about limits in the first place and what "arithmetic of limits" is supposed to mean? Why is $frac 1infty = 0$ "bad" but $lim frac 1n = infty$ utterly unquestioned?... Actually by this question, I don't even know if the OP has a definition of what a limit means.
      $endgroup$
      – fleablood
      Apr 2 at 16:28











    • $begingroup$
      I assume limit arithmetic refers to the standard results that if $lim a_n=a,lim b_n=b$, then $lim(a_n+b_n)=a+b,lim(a_nb_n)=ab$ and, granted $bneq0$, $lim(a_n/b_n)=a/b$. Of course, the limit $lim 1/n=0$ has to be proven beforehand, but it is the single most archetypical example of a limit, usually presented right after the definition thereof, so if OP already knows limit arithmetic, I thought it's justified to assume that limit is known. Of course, I would've provided proof of that if requested.
      $endgroup$
      – Thorgott
      Apr 2 at 16:42










    • $begingroup$
      I guess I'm finding second guessing these things as unquestioned givens is perplexing to me. I have no idea what the OP has and has not been taught. If we do all these things and take it for granted limits distribute over arithmetic without proving why, and even to use limits without actually defining what a limit is, then I don't see why we don't just go all the way with the handwaving and just teach $frac 1infty =0$ and $frac 10 = infty$. They all seem like hand waving abuse of concept to me.
      $endgroup$
      – fleablood
      Apr 2 at 16:50










    • $begingroup$
      Well, when I looked at OP's question, what I saw was a misapplication of limit arithmetic due to neglecting the hypotheses, so the point of my answer was to restate that these arithmetic rules can't be applied mindlessly and an alternative way of how to use them to reduce the problem to something that is (or should be) already known. If OP is getting rigorous exposure to math, that will be congruent with what they've been taught. If that is not the case, I'm afraid hand-waving is inevitable at some point, though I fully agree with you that it is bad practice.
      $endgroup$
      – Thorgott
      Apr 2 at 17:13













    3












    3








    3





    $begingroup$

    The identity
    $$lim_nrightarrowinftyfraca_nb_n=fraclimlimits_nrightarrowinftya_nlimlimits_nrightarrowinftyb_n$$
    does not hold when the limits on the RHS don't exist (or when the limit in the denominator would be $0$). The limit $lim_nrightarrowinftyn^2$ does not exist as the sequence is divergent, so you can not use the above identity. A valid way way to do limit arithmetic would be
    $$lim_nrightarrowinftyfrac1n^2=left(lim_nrightarrowinftyfrac1nright)cdotleft(lim_nrightarrowinftyfrac1nright).$$
    In this case, interchanging limit and product is possible, because the limits on the RHS each exist. They, of course, evaluate to $0$ and hence so does the original limit.






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$



    The identity
    $$lim_nrightarrowinftyfraca_nb_n=fraclimlimits_nrightarrowinftya_nlimlimits_nrightarrowinftyb_n$$
    does not hold when the limits on the RHS don't exist (or when the limit in the denominator would be $0$). The limit $lim_nrightarrowinftyn^2$ does not exist as the sequence is divergent, so you can not use the above identity. A valid way way to do limit arithmetic would be
    $$lim_nrightarrowinftyfrac1n^2=left(lim_nrightarrowinftyfrac1nright)cdotleft(lim_nrightarrowinftyfrac1nright).$$
    In this case, interchanging limit and product is possible, because the limits on the RHS each exist. They, of course, evaluate to $0$ and hence so does the original limit.







    share|cite|improve this answer












    share|cite|improve this answer



    share|cite|improve this answer










    answered Apr 2 at 15:49









    ThorgottThorgott

    796414




    796414











    • $begingroup$
      How did you ever figure that $lim frac 1n = 0$ though in the first place? .... I'm a bit confused about what the OP has and hasn't been taught about limits in the first place and what "arithmetic of limits" is supposed to mean? Why is $frac 1infty = 0$ "bad" but $lim frac 1n = infty$ utterly unquestioned?... Actually by this question, I don't even know if the OP has a definition of what a limit means.
      $endgroup$
      – fleablood
      Apr 2 at 16:28











    • $begingroup$
      I assume limit arithmetic refers to the standard results that if $lim a_n=a,lim b_n=b$, then $lim(a_n+b_n)=a+b,lim(a_nb_n)=ab$ and, granted $bneq0$, $lim(a_n/b_n)=a/b$. Of course, the limit $lim 1/n=0$ has to be proven beforehand, but it is the single most archetypical example of a limit, usually presented right after the definition thereof, so if OP already knows limit arithmetic, I thought it's justified to assume that limit is known. Of course, I would've provided proof of that if requested.
      $endgroup$
      – Thorgott
      Apr 2 at 16:42










    • $begingroup$
      I guess I'm finding second guessing these things as unquestioned givens is perplexing to me. I have no idea what the OP has and has not been taught. If we do all these things and take it for granted limits distribute over arithmetic without proving why, and even to use limits without actually defining what a limit is, then I don't see why we don't just go all the way with the handwaving and just teach $frac 1infty =0$ and $frac 10 = infty$. They all seem like hand waving abuse of concept to me.
      $endgroup$
      – fleablood
      Apr 2 at 16:50










    • $begingroup$
      Well, when I looked at OP's question, what I saw was a misapplication of limit arithmetic due to neglecting the hypotheses, so the point of my answer was to restate that these arithmetic rules can't be applied mindlessly and an alternative way of how to use them to reduce the problem to something that is (or should be) already known. If OP is getting rigorous exposure to math, that will be congruent with what they've been taught. If that is not the case, I'm afraid hand-waving is inevitable at some point, though I fully agree with you that it is bad practice.
      $endgroup$
      – Thorgott
      Apr 2 at 17:13
















    • $begingroup$
      How did you ever figure that $lim frac 1n = 0$ though in the first place? .... I'm a bit confused about what the OP has and hasn't been taught about limits in the first place and what "arithmetic of limits" is supposed to mean? Why is $frac 1infty = 0$ "bad" but $lim frac 1n = infty$ utterly unquestioned?... Actually by this question, I don't even know if the OP has a definition of what a limit means.
      $endgroup$
      – fleablood
      Apr 2 at 16:28











    • $begingroup$
      I assume limit arithmetic refers to the standard results that if $lim a_n=a,lim b_n=b$, then $lim(a_n+b_n)=a+b,lim(a_nb_n)=ab$ and, granted $bneq0$, $lim(a_n/b_n)=a/b$. Of course, the limit $lim 1/n=0$ has to be proven beforehand, but it is the single most archetypical example of a limit, usually presented right after the definition thereof, so if OP already knows limit arithmetic, I thought it's justified to assume that limit is known. Of course, I would've provided proof of that if requested.
      $endgroup$
      – Thorgott
      Apr 2 at 16:42










    • $begingroup$
      I guess I'm finding second guessing these things as unquestioned givens is perplexing to me. I have no idea what the OP has and has not been taught. If we do all these things and take it for granted limits distribute over arithmetic without proving why, and even to use limits without actually defining what a limit is, then I don't see why we don't just go all the way with the handwaving and just teach $frac 1infty =0$ and $frac 10 = infty$. They all seem like hand waving abuse of concept to me.
      $endgroup$
      – fleablood
      Apr 2 at 16:50










    • $begingroup$
      Well, when I looked at OP's question, what I saw was a misapplication of limit arithmetic due to neglecting the hypotheses, so the point of my answer was to restate that these arithmetic rules can't be applied mindlessly and an alternative way of how to use them to reduce the problem to something that is (or should be) already known. If OP is getting rigorous exposure to math, that will be congruent with what they've been taught. If that is not the case, I'm afraid hand-waving is inevitable at some point, though I fully agree with you that it is bad practice.
      $endgroup$
      – Thorgott
      Apr 2 at 17:13















    $begingroup$
    How did you ever figure that $lim frac 1n = 0$ though in the first place? .... I'm a bit confused about what the OP has and hasn't been taught about limits in the first place and what "arithmetic of limits" is supposed to mean? Why is $frac 1infty = 0$ "bad" but $lim frac 1n = infty$ utterly unquestioned?... Actually by this question, I don't even know if the OP has a definition of what a limit means.
    $endgroup$
    – fleablood
    Apr 2 at 16:28





    $begingroup$
    How did you ever figure that $lim frac 1n = 0$ though in the first place? .... I'm a bit confused about what the OP has and hasn't been taught about limits in the first place and what "arithmetic of limits" is supposed to mean? Why is $frac 1infty = 0$ "bad" but $lim frac 1n = infty$ utterly unquestioned?... Actually by this question, I don't even know if the OP has a definition of what a limit means.
    $endgroup$
    – fleablood
    Apr 2 at 16:28













    $begingroup$
    I assume limit arithmetic refers to the standard results that if $lim a_n=a,lim b_n=b$, then $lim(a_n+b_n)=a+b,lim(a_nb_n)=ab$ and, granted $bneq0$, $lim(a_n/b_n)=a/b$. Of course, the limit $lim 1/n=0$ has to be proven beforehand, but it is the single most archetypical example of a limit, usually presented right after the definition thereof, so if OP already knows limit arithmetic, I thought it's justified to assume that limit is known. Of course, I would've provided proof of that if requested.
    $endgroup$
    – Thorgott
    Apr 2 at 16:42




    $begingroup$
    I assume limit arithmetic refers to the standard results that if $lim a_n=a,lim b_n=b$, then $lim(a_n+b_n)=a+b,lim(a_nb_n)=ab$ and, granted $bneq0$, $lim(a_n/b_n)=a/b$. Of course, the limit $lim 1/n=0$ has to be proven beforehand, but it is the single most archetypical example of a limit, usually presented right after the definition thereof, so if OP already knows limit arithmetic, I thought it's justified to assume that limit is known. Of course, I would've provided proof of that if requested.
    $endgroup$
    – Thorgott
    Apr 2 at 16:42












    $begingroup$
    I guess I'm finding second guessing these things as unquestioned givens is perplexing to me. I have no idea what the OP has and has not been taught. If we do all these things and take it for granted limits distribute over arithmetic without proving why, and even to use limits without actually defining what a limit is, then I don't see why we don't just go all the way with the handwaving and just teach $frac 1infty =0$ and $frac 10 = infty$. They all seem like hand waving abuse of concept to me.
    $endgroup$
    – fleablood
    Apr 2 at 16:50




    $begingroup$
    I guess I'm finding second guessing these things as unquestioned givens is perplexing to me. I have no idea what the OP has and has not been taught. If we do all these things and take it for granted limits distribute over arithmetic without proving why, and even to use limits without actually defining what a limit is, then I don't see why we don't just go all the way with the handwaving and just teach $frac 1infty =0$ and $frac 10 = infty$. They all seem like hand waving abuse of concept to me.
    $endgroup$
    – fleablood
    Apr 2 at 16:50












    $begingroup$
    Well, when I looked at OP's question, what I saw was a misapplication of limit arithmetic due to neglecting the hypotheses, so the point of my answer was to restate that these arithmetic rules can't be applied mindlessly and an alternative way of how to use them to reduce the problem to something that is (or should be) already known. If OP is getting rigorous exposure to math, that will be congruent with what they've been taught. If that is not the case, I'm afraid hand-waving is inevitable at some point, though I fully agree with you that it is bad practice.
    $endgroup$
    – Thorgott
    Apr 2 at 17:13




    $begingroup$
    Well, when I looked at OP's question, what I saw was a misapplication of limit arithmetic due to neglecting the hypotheses, so the point of my answer was to restate that these arithmetic rules can't be applied mindlessly and an alternative way of how to use them to reduce the problem to something that is (or should be) already known. If OP is getting rigorous exposure to math, that will be congruent with what they've been taught. If that is not the case, I'm afraid hand-waving is inevitable at some point, though I fully agree with you that it is bad practice.
    $endgroup$
    – Thorgott
    Apr 2 at 17:13











    1












    $begingroup$

    Just do delta-epsilon. There's no trick.



    For any $epsilon> 0$ let $N ge frac 1sqrtepsilon$.



    If $n > N$ then $|frac 1n^2 - 0| =frac 1n^2 < frac 1N^2 = epsilon$.



    So $lim_nto inftyfrac 1n^2 = 0$.



    That's it.



    =====



    In general, you should have one time or another have been presented with a proof that




    if $lim f(n) = +infty$ then $lim frac 1f(n) = 0$.




    The proof would be: As $lim_nto a f(n)=+infty$ then for any $N$ there is a condition for $n$ so that $f(n) > N$. [If $lim_nto a f(n) = infty$ the condition is there is a $delta$ so tha $|n-a| < delta$ will mean $f(n) >N$. If $lim_nto infty f(n) = infty$ the condition is there is a $M$ so that $n > M$ will mean $f(n) > N$].



    For any $epsilon > 0$ let $N = frac 1epsilon$ then if $n$ has the condition we know $f(n) > N$ so $frac 1f(n) < epsilon$. So $lim frac 1f(n) = 0$.



    ....



    So if we assume $lim_nto infty n^2 = infty$ (which is either very clear; or provable as for any $N>0$ if $n > sqrtN implies n^2 > N$) we know the $lim_nto inftyfrac 1n^2 = 0$.



    This is why we informally say $frac 1infty = 0$. But that is informal and too many people say it without knowing what it means.






    share|cite|improve this answer











    $endgroup$

















      1












      $begingroup$

      Just do delta-epsilon. There's no trick.



      For any $epsilon> 0$ let $N ge frac 1sqrtepsilon$.



      If $n > N$ then $|frac 1n^2 - 0| =frac 1n^2 < frac 1N^2 = epsilon$.



      So $lim_nto inftyfrac 1n^2 = 0$.



      That's it.



      =====



      In general, you should have one time or another have been presented with a proof that




      if $lim f(n) = +infty$ then $lim frac 1f(n) = 0$.




      The proof would be: As $lim_nto a f(n)=+infty$ then for any $N$ there is a condition for $n$ so that $f(n) > N$. [If $lim_nto a f(n) = infty$ the condition is there is a $delta$ so tha $|n-a| < delta$ will mean $f(n) >N$. If $lim_nto infty f(n) = infty$ the condition is there is a $M$ so that $n > M$ will mean $f(n) > N$].



      For any $epsilon > 0$ let $N = frac 1epsilon$ then if $n$ has the condition we know $f(n) > N$ so $frac 1f(n) < epsilon$. So $lim frac 1f(n) = 0$.



      ....



      So if we assume $lim_nto infty n^2 = infty$ (which is either very clear; or provable as for any $N>0$ if $n > sqrtN implies n^2 > N$) we know the $lim_nto inftyfrac 1n^2 = 0$.



      This is why we informally say $frac 1infty = 0$. But that is informal and too many people say it without knowing what it means.






      share|cite|improve this answer











      $endgroup$















        1












        1








        1





        $begingroup$

        Just do delta-epsilon. There's no trick.



        For any $epsilon> 0$ let $N ge frac 1sqrtepsilon$.



        If $n > N$ then $|frac 1n^2 - 0| =frac 1n^2 < frac 1N^2 = epsilon$.



        So $lim_nto inftyfrac 1n^2 = 0$.



        That's it.



        =====



        In general, you should have one time or another have been presented with a proof that




        if $lim f(n) = +infty$ then $lim frac 1f(n) = 0$.




        The proof would be: As $lim_nto a f(n)=+infty$ then for any $N$ there is a condition for $n$ so that $f(n) > N$. [If $lim_nto a f(n) = infty$ the condition is there is a $delta$ so tha $|n-a| < delta$ will mean $f(n) >N$. If $lim_nto infty f(n) = infty$ the condition is there is a $M$ so that $n > M$ will mean $f(n) > N$].



        For any $epsilon > 0$ let $N = frac 1epsilon$ then if $n$ has the condition we know $f(n) > N$ so $frac 1f(n) < epsilon$. So $lim frac 1f(n) = 0$.



        ....



        So if we assume $lim_nto infty n^2 = infty$ (which is either very clear; or provable as for any $N>0$ if $n > sqrtN implies n^2 > N$) we know the $lim_nto inftyfrac 1n^2 = 0$.



        This is why we informally say $frac 1infty = 0$. But that is informal and too many people say it without knowing what it means.






        share|cite|improve this answer











        $endgroup$



        Just do delta-epsilon. There's no trick.



        For any $epsilon> 0$ let $N ge frac 1sqrtepsilon$.



        If $n > N$ then $|frac 1n^2 - 0| =frac 1n^2 < frac 1N^2 = epsilon$.



        So $lim_nto inftyfrac 1n^2 = 0$.



        That's it.



        =====



        In general, you should have one time or another have been presented with a proof that




        if $lim f(n) = +infty$ then $lim frac 1f(n) = 0$.




        The proof would be: As $lim_nto a f(n)=+infty$ then for any $N$ there is a condition for $n$ so that $f(n) > N$. [If $lim_nto a f(n) = infty$ the condition is there is a $delta$ so tha $|n-a| < delta$ will mean $f(n) >N$. If $lim_nto infty f(n) = infty$ the condition is there is a $M$ so that $n > M$ will mean $f(n) > N$].



        For any $epsilon > 0$ let $N = frac 1epsilon$ then if $n$ has the condition we know $f(n) > N$ so $frac 1f(n) < epsilon$. So $lim frac 1f(n) = 0$.



        ....



        So if we assume $lim_nto infty n^2 = infty$ (which is either very clear; or provable as for any $N>0$ if $n > sqrtN implies n^2 > N$) we know the $lim_nto inftyfrac 1n^2 = 0$.



        This is why we informally say $frac 1infty = 0$. But that is informal and too many people say it without knowing what it means.







        share|cite|improve this answer














        share|cite|improve this answer



        share|cite|improve this answer








        edited Apr 2 at 16:24

























        answered Apr 2 at 15:55









        fleabloodfleablood

        1




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