How in general does one construct a cycle graph for a group? The 2019 Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results Are InWhen does a biregular graph for the free product 2∗(2×2) have a 4 cycle?Check existence of cycle in graph with only number of vertices and their degreeIs a finitely generated torsion group finite in general?If a connected graph has no bridges, does it contain a cycle?Is a group uniquely determined by the sets ab,ba for each pair of elements a and b?edges in at most one odd cycle, 3 colorableWhat are the requirements for a graph to be a cycle graph of a group?How to read a cycle graph?Automorphism group for a graphUnique Cycle be a Basis of Kernel Q in Finite Graph

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How in general does one construct a cycle graph for a group?



The 2019 Stack Overflow Developer Survey Results Are InWhen does a biregular graph for the free product 2∗(2×2) have a 4 cycle?Check existence of cycle in graph with only number of vertices and their degreeIs a finitely generated torsion group finite in general?If a connected graph has no bridges, does it contain a cycle?Is a group uniquely determined by the sets ab,ba for each pair of elements a and b?edges in at most one odd cycle, 3 colorableWhat are the requirements for a graph to be a cycle graph of a group?How to read a cycle graph?Automorphism group for a graphUnique Cycle be a Basis of Kernel Q in Finite Graph










1












$begingroup$


I think I know how to interpret a cycle graph for a group, but I don’t know how to construct one. In particular, I don’t know a general rule of how to find the “basic elements” which to take the powers of.



Is there a general algorithm for constructing the cycle graph of a finite group, which always ensures that you get the correct unique cycle graph?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$











  • $begingroup$
    Do you mean cyclic groups?
    $endgroup$
    – Berci
    Mar 6 at 9:58










  • $begingroup$
    What's a cycle graph?
    $endgroup$
    – the_fox
    Mar 6 at 15:50










  • $begingroup$
    @the_fox, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycle_graph_(algebra)
    $endgroup$
    – user56834
    Mar 6 at 16:27










  • $begingroup$
    @Berci, no I don't
    $endgroup$
    – user56834
    Mar 6 at 16:27















1












$begingroup$


I think I know how to interpret a cycle graph for a group, but I don’t know how to construct one. In particular, I don’t know a general rule of how to find the “basic elements” which to take the powers of.



Is there a general algorithm for constructing the cycle graph of a finite group, which always ensures that you get the correct unique cycle graph?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$











  • $begingroup$
    Do you mean cyclic groups?
    $endgroup$
    – Berci
    Mar 6 at 9:58










  • $begingroup$
    What's a cycle graph?
    $endgroup$
    – the_fox
    Mar 6 at 15:50










  • $begingroup$
    @the_fox, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycle_graph_(algebra)
    $endgroup$
    – user56834
    Mar 6 at 16:27










  • $begingroup$
    @Berci, no I don't
    $endgroup$
    – user56834
    Mar 6 at 16:27













1












1








1





$begingroup$


I think I know how to interpret a cycle graph for a group, but I don’t know how to construct one. In particular, I don’t know a general rule of how to find the “basic elements” which to take the powers of.



Is there a general algorithm for constructing the cycle graph of a finite group, which always ensures that you get the correct unique cycle graph?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




I think I know how to interpret a cycle graph for a group, but I don’t know how to construct one. In particular, I don’t know a general rule of how to find the “basic elements” which to take the powers of.



Is there a general algorithm for constructing the cycle graph of a finite group, which always ensures that you get the correct unique cycle graph?







abstract-algebra group-theory graph-theory finite-groups






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited Mar 30 at 10:24









Yanior Weg

2,72411446




2,72411446










asked Mar 6 at 9:38









user56834user56834

3,30521253




3,30521253











  • $begingroup$
    Do you mean cyclic groups?
    $endgroup$
    – Berci
    Mar 6 at 9:58










  • $begingroup$
    What's a cycle graph?
    $endgroup$
    – the_fox
    Mar 6 at 15:50










  • $begingroup$
    @the_fox, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycle_graph_(algebra)
    $endgroup$
    – user56834
    Mar 6 at 16:27










  • $begingroup$
    @Berci, no I don't
    $endgroup$
    – user56834
    Mar 6 at 16:27
















  • $begingroup$
    Do you mean cyclic groups?
    $endgroup$
    – Berci
    Mar 6 at 9:58










  • $begingroup$
    What's a cycle graph?
    $endgroup$
    – the_fox
    Mar 6 at 15:50










  • $begingroup$
    @the_fox, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycle_graph_(algebra)
    $endgroup$
    – user56834
    Mar 6 at 16:27










  • $begingroup$
    @Berci, no I don't
    $endgroup$
    – user56834
    Mar 6 at 16:27















$begingroup$
Do you mean cyclic groups?
$endgroup$
– Berci
Mar 6 at 9:58




$begingroup$
Do you mean cyclic groups?
$endgroup$
– Berci
Mar 6 at 9:58












$begingroup$
What's a cycle graph?
$endgroup$
– the_fox
Mar 6 at 15:50




$begingroup$
What's a cycle graph?
$endgroup$
– the_fox
Mar 6 at 15:50












$begingroup$
@the_fox, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycle_graph_(algebra)
$endgroup$
– user56834
Mar 6 at 16:27




$begingroup$
@the_fox, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycle_graph_(algebra)
$endgroup$
– user56834
Mar 6 at 16:27












$begingroup$
@Berci, no I don't
$endgroup$
– user56834
Mar 6 at 16:27




$begingroup$
@Berci, no I don't
$endgroup$
– user56834
Mar 6 at 16:27










1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes


















3





+50







$begingroup$

You can just take one element at a time (though I don't know about computational efficiency or stuff like that). Start with the graph containing only the identity element (and no edges). In each step after this, you:



  1. Pick an element not already in the graph.

  2. Compute the cyclic subgroup generated by the element and add the cycle to the graph (connecting to already existing nodes as needed).

  3. If the graph contains a sub-cycle of the new cycle, you delete the sub-cycle.

Repeat until you have added all the (finitely many) elements.



Let's say we want to make the cycle graph for $Z_4 times Z_2 = langle xrangletimes langle y rangle$. We start with the identity element, and then we pick an arbitrary element, say $x^2$. We see that $langle x^2 rangle = 1, x^2$, so we get the graph:



x^2
|
1


Now we pick another element, say x, and we find that $langle x rangle = 1, x, x^2, x^3$. Since the cycle $1, x^2$ on the graph is a subset of the new cycle, we replace it:



 x^2
/
x^3 x
/
1


Let's pick $xy$ now. We get $langle xy rangle = 1, xy, x^2, x^3y$, so we draw:



 x^2
⟋ / ⟍
x^3y x^3 x xy
⟍ / ⟋
1


(Please excuse the ascii...). Now we take $y$ and find $langle y rangle = 1, y$, so we draw:



 x^2
⟋ / ⟍
x^3y x^3 x xy
⟍ / ⟋
1
|
y


and finally we take $x^2y$, giving $langle x^2y rangle = 1, x^2y$, which gives us the finished cycle graph:



 x^2
⟋ / ⟍
x^3y x^3 x xy
⟍ / ⟋
1
/
y x^2y


(Note that it is kind of silly to start with $x^2$, since it will certainly be contained in the cycle generated by $x$. I did it for illustrative purposes of course.)



EDIT: How to find primitive elements, or "basic elements" as you call them. Let's say you want to know if a particular element $g$ will be a generator for a cycle on the cycle graph. Then you have to check if $g$ can be written as a power of another element, which has order strictly greater than that of $g$. If this is not the case, then $g$ is a primitive element.



If we don't know anything about the structure of the group, this would amount to basically drawing up the full graph. However, if we know the group, we can find out more quickly. For example, if $g$ is of maximal order in the group, then it must be a primitive element. This immediately shows that $x$ and $xy$ in our example will be primitive elements. Note that we can easily find them without computing anything. Similarly, if $D_2n = langle r, s rangle$ is the dihedral group of order $2n$, then $r$ will be a primitive element.



Generalising the situation in the example, I noticed the following: If $Z_p^a_1times cdots times Z_p^a_t = langle x_1rangletimes cdots times langle x_t rangle$ is a direct product of cyclic groups, where the order of each one is a power of the same prime, then $x_1, ldots, x_t$ will all be primitive elements. This is not true for any other direct product of cyclic groups with more than one component.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Thanks! could you explain this: "This immediately shows that x and xy in our example will be primitive elements. Note that we can easily find them without computing anything." I don't see this immediately.
    $endgroup$
    – user56834
    Mar 26 at 16:46










  • $begingroup$
    We know that the order of an element in $Z_4times Z_2$ divides the order of the group, i.e. 8. Since the group is not cyclic, no element has order 8, so the biggest possible order is 4. Now $x$ generates $Z_4$, so $x$ has order 4. For $xy$ we have: $|xy| = rm lcm(|x|,|y|) = rm lcm(4,2) = 4$. So they both have maximal order, meaning they are primitive elements. We can also note that $xy$ is not a power of $x$, so they generate different cycles.
    $endgroup$
    – Milten
    Mar 26 at 19:56










  • $begingroup$
    I suppose there was a little bit of computation, but we didn't have to compute the powers of the elements.
    $endgroup$
    – Milten
    Mar 26 at 19:59










  • $begingroup$
    IN your 3rd, 4th, and 5th graph you have non-ASCII characters.
    $endgroup$
    – Somos
    Mar 27 at 17:35










  • $begingroup$
    Oh, does that mess it up on other computers? Do you have a suggestion on how to fix it? You are welcome to edit.
    $endgroup$
    – Milten
    Mar 27 at 17:47











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1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes








1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









3





+50







$begingroup$

You can just take one element at a time (though I don't know about computational efficiency or stuff like that). Start with the graph containing only the identity element (and no edges). In each step after this, you:



  1. Pick an element not already in the graph.

  2. Compute the cyclic subgroup generated by the element and add the cycle to the graph (connecting to already existing nodes as needed).

  3. If the graph contains a sub-cycle of the new cycle, you delete the sub-cycle.

Repeat until you have added all the (finitely many) elements.



Let's say we want to make the cycle graph for $Z_4 times Z_2 = langle xrangletimes langle y rangle$. We start with the identity element, and then we pick an arbitrary element, say $x^2$. We see that $langle x^2 rangle = 1, x^2$, so we get the graph:



x^2
|
1


Now we pick another element, say x, and we find that $langle x rangle = 1, x, x^2, x^3$. Since the cycle $1, x^2$ on the graph is a subset of the new cycle, we replace it:



 x^2
/
x^3 x
/
1


Let's pick $xy$ now. We get $langle xy rangle = 1, xy, x^2, x^3y$, so we draw:



 x^2
⟋ / ⟍
x^3y x^3 x xy
⟍ / ⟋
1


(Please excuse the ascii...). Now we take $y$ and find $langle y rangle = 1, y$, so we draw:



 x^2
⟋ / ⟍
x^3y x^3 x xy
⟍ / ⟋
1
|
y


and finally we take $x^2y$, giving $langle x^2y rangle = 1, x^2y$, which gives us the finished cycle graph:



 x^2
⟋ / ⟍
x^3y x^3 x xy
⟍ / ⟋
1
/
y x^2y


(Note that it is kind of silly to start with $x^2$, since it will certainly be contained in the cycle generated by $x$. I did it for illustrative purposes of course.)



EDIT: How to find primitive elements, or "basic elements" as you call them. Let's say you want to know if a particular element $g$ will be a generator for a cycle on the cycle graph. Then you have to check if $g$ can be written as a power of another element, which has order strictly greater than that of $g$. If this is not the case, then $g$ is a primitive element.



If we don't know anything about the structure of the group, this would amount to basically drawing up the full graph. However, if we know the group, we can find out more quickly. For example, if $g$ is of maximal order in the group, then it must be a primitive element. This immediately shows that $x$ and $xy$ in our example will be primitive elements. Note that we can easily find them without computing anything. Similarly, if $D_2n = langle r, s rangle$ is the dihedral group of order $2n$, then $r$ will be a primitive element.



Generalising the situation in the example, I noticed the following: If $Z_p^a_1times cdots times Z_p^a_t = langle x_1rangletimes cdots times langle x_t rangle$ is a direct product of cyclic groups, where the order of each one is a power of the same prime, then $x_1, ldots, x_t$ will all be primitive elements. This is not true for any other direct product of cyclic groups with more than one component.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Thanks! could you explain this: "This immediately shows that x and xy in our example will be primitive elements. Note that we can easily find them without computing anything." I don't see this immediately.
    $endgroup$
    – user56834
    Mar 26 at 16:46










  • $begingroup$
    We know that the order of an element in $Z_4times Z_2$ divides the order of the group, i.e. 8. Since the group is not cyclic, no element has order 8, so the biggest possible order is 4. Now $x$ generates $Z_4$, so $x$ has order 4. For $xy$ we have: $|xy| = rm lcm(|x|,|y|) = rm lcm(4,2) = 4$. So they both have maximal order, meaning they are primitive elements. We can also note that $xy$ is not a power of $x$, so they generate different cycles.
    $endgroup$
    – Milten
    Mar 26 at 19:56










  • $begingroup$
    I suppose there was a little bit of computation, but we didn't have to compute the powers of the elements.
    $endgroup$
    – Milten
    Mar 26 at 19:59










  • $begingroup$
    IN your 3rd, 4th, and 5th graph you have non-ASCII characters.
    $endgroup$
    – Somos
    Mar 27 at 17:35










  • $begingroup$
    Oh, does that mess it up on other computers? Do you have a suggestion on how to fix it? You are welcome to edit.
    $endgroup$
    – Milten
    Mar 27 at 17:47















3





+50







$begingroup$

You can just take one element at a time (though I don't know about computational efficiency or stuff like that). Start with the graph containing only the identity element (and no edges). In each step after this, you:



  1. Pick an element not already in the graph.

  2. Compute the cyclic subgroup generated by the element and add the cycle to the graph (connecting to already existing nodes as needed).

  3. If the graph contains a sub-cycle of the new cycle, you delete the sub-cycle.

Repeat until you have added all the (finitely many) elements.



Let's say we want to make the cycle graph for $Z_4 times Z_2 = langle xrangletimes langle y rangle$. We start with the identity element, and then we pick an arbitrary element, say $x^2$. We see that $langle x^2 rangle = 1, x^2$, so we get the graph:



x^2
|
1


Now we pick another element, say x, and we find that $langle x rangle = 1, x, x^2, x^3$. Since the cycle $1, x^2$ on the graph is a subset of the new cycle, we replace it:



 x^2
/
x^3 x
/
1


Let's pick $xy$ now. We get $langle xy rangle = 1, xy, x^2, x^3y$, so we draw:



 x^2
⟋ / ⟍
x^3y x^3 x xy
⟍ / ⟋
1


(Please excuse the ascii...). Now we take $y$ and find $langle y rangle = 1, y$, so we draw:



 x^2
⟋ / ⟍
x^3y x^3 x xy
⟍ / ⟋
1
|
y


and finally we take $x^2y$, giving $langle x^2y rangle = 1, x^2y$, which gives us the finished cycle graph:



 x^2
⟋ / ⟍
x^3y x^3 x xy
⟍ / ⟋
1
/
y x^2y


(Note that it is kind of silly to start with $x^2$, since it will certainly be contained in the cycle generated by $x$. I did it for illustrative purposes of course.)



EDIT: How to find primitive elements, or "basic elements" as you call them. Let's say you want to know if a particular element $g$ will be a generator for a cycle on the cycle graph. Then you have to check if $g$ can be written as a power of another element, which has order strictly greater than that of $g$. If this is not the case, then $g$ is a primitive element.



If we don't know anything about the structure of the group, this would amount to basically drawing up the full graph. However, if we know the group, we can find out more quickly. For example, if $g$ is of maximal order in the group, then it must be a primitive element. This immediately shows that $x$ and $xy$ in our example will be primitive elements. Note that we can easily find them without computing anything. Similarly, if $D_2n = langle r, s rangle$ is the dihedral group of order $2n$, then $r$ will be a primitive element.



Generalising the situation in the example, I noticed the following: If $Z_p^a_1times cdots times Z_p^a_t = langle x_1rangletimes cdots times langle x_t rangle$ is a direct product of cyclic groups, where the order of each one is a power of the same prime, then $x_1, ldots, x_t$ will all be primitive elements. This is not true for any other direct product of cyclic groups with more than one component.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Thanks! could you explain this: "This immediately shows that x and xy in our example will be primitive elements. Note that we can easily find them without computing anything." I don't see this immediately.
    $endgroup$
    – user56834
    Mar 26 at 16:46










  • $begingroup$
    We know that the order of an element in $Z_4times Z_2$ divides the order of the group, i.e. 8. Since the group is not cyclic, no element has order 8, so the biggest possible order is 4. Now $x$ generates $Z_4$, so $x$ has order 4. For $xy$ we have: $|xy| = rm lcm(|x|,|y|) = rm lcm(4,2) = 4$. So they both have maximal order, meaning they are primitive elements. We can also note that $xy$ is not a power of $x$, so they generate different cycles.
    $endgroup$
    – Milten
    Mar 26 at 19:56










  • $begingroup$
    I suppose there was a little bit of computation, but we didn't have to compute the powers of the elements.
    $endgroup$
    – Milten
    Mar 26 at 19:59










  • $begingroup$
    IN your 3rd, 4th, and 5th graph you have non-ASCII characters.
    $endgroup$
    – Somos
    Mar 27 at 17:35










  • $begingroup$
    Oh, does that mess it up on other computers? Do you have a suggestion on how to fix it? You are welcome to edit.
    $endgroup$
    – Milten
    Mar 27 at 17:47













3





+50







3





+50



3




+50



$begingroup$

You can just take one element at a time (though I don't know about computational efficiency or stuff like that). Start with the graph containing only the identity element (and no edges). In each step after this, you:



  1. Pick an element not already in the graph.

  2. Compute the cyclic subgroup generated by the element and add the cycle to the graph (connecting to already existing nodes as needed).

  3. If the graph contains a sub-cycle of the new cycle, you delete the sub-cycle.

Repeat until you have added all the (finitely many) elements.



Let's say we want to make the cycle graph for $Z_4 times Z_2 = langle xrangletimes langle y rangle$. We start with the identity element, and then we pick an arbitrary element, say $x^2$. We see that $langle x^2 rangle = 1, x^2$, so we get the graph:



x^2
|
1


Now we pick another element, say x, and we find that $langle x rangle = 1, x, x^2, x^3$. Since the cycle $1, x^2$ on the graph is a subset of the new cycle, we replace it:



 x^2
/
x^3 x
/
1


Let's pick $xy$ now. We get $langle xy rangle = 1, xy, x^2, x^3y$, so we draw:



 x^2
⟋ / ⟍
x^3y x^3 x xy
⟍ / ⟋
1


(Please excuse the ascii...). Now we take $y$ and find $langle y rangle = 1, y$, so we draw:



 x^2
⟋ / ⟍
x^3y x^3 x xy
⟍ / ⟋
1
|
y


and finally we take $x^2y$, giving $langle x^2y rangle = 1, x^2y$, which gives us the finished cycle graph:



 x^2
⟋ / ⟍
x^3y x^3 x xy
⟍ / ⟋
1
/
y x^2y


(Note that it is kind of silly to start with $x^2$, since it will certainly be contained in the cycle generated by $x$. I did it for illustrative purposes of course.)



EDIT: How to find primitive elements, or "basic elements" as you call them. Let's say you want to know if a particular element $g$ will be a generator for a cycle on the cycle graph. Then you have to check if $g$ can be written as a power of another element, which has order strictly greater than that of $g$. If this is not the case, then $g$ is a primitive element.



If we don't know anything about the structure of the group, this would amount to basically drawing up the full graph. However, if we know the group, we can find out more quickly. For example, if $g$ is of maximal order in the group, then it must be a primitive element. This immediately shows that $x$ and $xy$ in our example will be primitive elements. Note that we can easily find them without computing anything. Similarly, if $D_2n = langle r, s rangle$ is the dihedral group of order $2n$, then $r$ will be a primitive element.



Generalising the situation in the example, I noticed the following: If $Z_p^a_1times cdots times Z_p^a_t = langle x_1rangletimes cdots times langle x_t rangle$ is a direct product of cyclic groups, where the order of each one is a power of the same prime, then $x_1, ldots, x_t$ will all be primitive elements. This is not true for any other direct product of cyclic groups with more than one component.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$



You can just take one element at a time (though I don't know about computational efficiency or stuff like that). Start with the graph containing only the identity element (and no edges). In each step after this, you:



  1. Pick an element not already in the graph.

  2. Compute the cyclic subgroup generated by the element and add the cycle to the graph (connecting to already existing nodes as needed).

  3. If the graph contains a sub-cycle of the new cycle, you delete the sub-cycle.

Repeat until you have added all the (finitely many) elements.



Let's say we want to make the cycle graph for $Z_4 times Z_2 = langle xrangletimes langle y rangle$. We start with the identity element, and then we pick an arbitrary element, say $x^2$. We see that $langle x^2 rangle = 1, x^2$, so we get the graph:



x^2
|
1


Now we pick another element, say x, and we find that $langle x rangle = 1, x, x^2, x^3$. Since the cycle $1, x^2$ on the graph is a subset of the new cycle, we replace it:



 x^2
/
x^3 x
/
1


Let's pick $xy$ now. We get $langle xy rangle = 1, xy, x^2, x^3y$, so we draw:



 x^2
⟋ / ⟍
x^3y x^3 x xy
⟍ / ⟋
1


(Please excuse the ascii...). Now we take $y$ and find $langle y rangle = 1, y$, so we draw:



 x^2
⟋ / ⟍
x^3y x^3 x xy
⟍ / ⟋
1
|
y


and finally we take $x^2y$, giving $langle x^2y rangle = 1, x^2y$, which gives us the finished cycle graph:



 x^2
⟋ / ⟍
x^3y x^3 x xy
⟍ / ⟋
1
/
y x^2y


(Note that it is kind of silly to start with $x^2$, since it will certainly be contained in the cycle generated by $x$. I did it for illustrative purposes of course.)



EDIT: How to find primitive elements, or "basic elements" as you call them. Let's say you want to know if a particular element $g$ will be a generator for a cycle on the cycle graph. Then you have to check if $g$ can be written as a power of another element, which has order strictly greater than that of $g$. If this is not the case, then $g$ is a primitive element.



If we don't know anything about the structure of the group, this would amount to basically drawing up the full graph. However, if we know the group, we can find out more quickly. For example, if $g$ is of maximal order in the group, then it must be a primitive element. This immediately shows that $x$ and $xy$ in our example will be primitive elements. Note that we can easily find them without computing anything. Similarly, if $D_2n = langle r, s rangle$ is the dihedral group of order $2n$, then $r$ will be a primitive element.



Generalising the situation in the example, I noticed the following: If $Z_p^a_1times cdots times Z_p^a_t = langle x_1rangletimes cdots times langle x_t rangle$ is a direct product of cyclic groups, where the order of each one is a power of the same prime, then $x_1, ldots, x_t$ will all be primitive elements. This is not true for any other direct product of cyclic groups with more than one component.







share|cite|improve this answer














share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer








edited Mar 27 at 15:24

























answered Mar 26 at 5:13









MiltenMilten

3746




3746











  • $begingroup$
    Thanks! could you explain this: "This immediately shows that x and xy in our example will be primitive elements. Note that we can easily find them without computing anything." I don't see this immediately.
    $endgroup$
    – user56834
    Mar 26 at 16:46










  • $begingroup$
    We know that the order of an element in $Z_4times Z_2$ divides the order of the group, i.e. 8. Since the group is not cyclic, no element has order 8, so the biggest possible order is 4. Now $x$ generates $Z_4$, so $x$ has order 4. For $xy$ we have: $|xy| = rm lcm(|x|,|y|) = rm lcm(4,2) = 4$. So they both have maximal order, meaning they are primitive elements. We can also note that $xy$ is not a power of $x$, so they generate different cycles.
    $endgroup$
    – Milten
    Mar 26 at 19:56










  • $begingroup$
    I suppose there was a little bit of computation, but we didn't have to compute the powers of the elements.
    $endgroup$
    – Milten
    Mar 26 at 19:59










  • $begingroup$
    IN your 3rd, 4th, and 5th graph you have non-ASCII characters.
    $endgroup$
    – Somos
    Mar 27 at 17:35










  • $begingroup$
    Oh, does that mess it up on other computers? Do you have a suggestion on how to fix it? You are welcome to edit.
    $endgroup$
    – Milten
    Mar 27 at 17:47
















  • $begingroup$
    Thanks! could you explain this: "This immediately shows that x and xy in our example will be primitive elements. Note that we can easily find them without computing anything." I don't see this immediately.
    $endgroup$
    – user56834
    Mar 26 at 16:46










  • $begingroup$
    We know that the order of an element in $Z_4times Z_2$ divides the order of the group, i.e. 8. Since the group is not cyclic, no element has order 8, so the biggest possible order is 4. Now $x$ generates $Z_4$, so $x$ has order 4. For $xy$ we have: $|xy| = rm lcm(|x|,|y|) = rm lcm(4,2) = 4$. So they both have maximal order, meaning they are primitive elements. We can also note that $xy$ is not a power of $x$, so they generate different cycles.
    $endgroup$
    – Milten
    Mar 26 at 19:56










  • $begingroup$
    I suppose there was a little bit of computation, but we didn't have to compute the powers of the elements.
    $endgroup$
    – Milten
    Mar 26 at 19:59










  • $begingroup$
    IN your 3rd, 4th, and 5th graph you have non-ASCII characters.
    $endgroup$
    – Somos
    Mar 27 at 17:35










  • $begingroup$
    Oh, does that mess it up on other computers? Do you have a suggestion on how to fix it? You are welcome to edit.
    $endgroup$
    – Milten
    Mar 27 at 17:47















$begingroup$
Thanks! could you explain this: "This immediately shows that x and xy in our example will be primitive elements. Note that we can easily find them without computing anything." I don't see this immediately.
$endgroup$
– user56834
Mar 26 at 16:46




$begingroup$
Thanks! could you explain this: "This immediately shows that x and xy in our example will be primitive elements. Note that we can easily find them without computing anything." I don't see this immediately.
$endgroup$
– user56834
Mar 26 at 16:46












$begingroup$
We know that the order of an element in $Z_4times Z_2$ divides the order of the group, i.e. 8. Since the group is not cyclic, no element has order 8, so the biggest possible order is 4. Now $x$ generates $Z_4$, so $x$ has order 4. For $xy$ we have: $|xy| = rm lcm(|x|,|y|) = rm lcm(4,2) = 4$. So they both have maximal order, meaning they are primitive elements. We can also note that $xy$ is not a power of $x$, so they generate different cycles.
$endgroup$
– Milten
Mar 26 at 19:56




$begingroup$
We know that the order of an element in $Z_4times Z_2$ divides the order of the group, i.e. 8. Since the group is not cyclic, no element has order 8, so the biggest possible order is 4. Now $x$ generates $Z_4$, so $x$ has order 4. For $xy$ we have: $|xy| = rm lcm(|x|,|y|) = rm lcm(4,2) = 4$. So they both have maximal order, meaning they are primitive elements. We can also note that $xy$ is not a power of $x$, so they generate different cycles.
$endgroup$
– Milten
Mar 26 at 19:56












$begingroup$
I suppose there was a little bit of computation, but we didn't have to compute the powers of the elements.
$endgroup$
– Milten
Mar 26 at 19:59




$begingroup$
I suppose there was a little bit of computation, but we didn't have to compute the powers of the elements.
$endgroup$
– Milten
Mar 26 at 19:59












$begingroup$
IN your 3rd, 4th, and 5th graph you have non-ASCII characters.
$endgroup$
– Somos
Mar 27 at 17:35




$begingroup$
IN your 3rd, 4th, and 5th graph you have non-ASCII characters.
$endgroup$
– Somos
Mar 27 at 17:35












$begingroup$
Oh, does that mess it up on other computers? Do you have a suggestion on how to fix it? You are welcome to edit.
$endgroup$
– Milten
Mar 27 at 17:47




$begingroup$
Oh, does that mess it up on other computers? Do you have a suggestion on how to fix it? You are welcome to edit.
$endgroup$
– Milten
Mar 27 at 17:47

















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