What are the ramifications of creating a homebrew world without an Astral Plane?What are all the ways a player can get to the Astral Plane?Do creatures from other planes typically travel into the material plane?What happened to the Barrens of Doom and Despair during and after the Spellplague?Did the spellplague change the cosmology of other crystal spheres too, or just realmspace?Determining what plane you are onWhat D&D creatures are the most appropriate to act as mercenaries?Can Gated Fiends/Celestials Die Permanently?Overview of common languages per planeWhat differentiates “Gods” from other entities in the Forgotten Realm cosmology?Are the Material Planes comprising the various campaign settings surrounded by a shared set of outer planes?How much would an average adventurer in the Forgotten Realms know about the Great Wheel Cosmology?
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What are the ramifications of creating a homebrew world without an Astral Plane?
What are all the ways a player can get to the Astral Plane?Do creatures from other planes typically travel into the material plane?What happened to the Barrens of Doom and Despair during and after the Spellplague?Did the spellplague change the cosmology of other crystal spheres too, or just realmspace?Determining what plane you are onWhat D&D creatures are the most appropriate to act as mercenaries?Can Gated Fiends/Celestials Die Permanently?Overview of common languages per planeWhat differentiates “Gods” from other entities in the Forgotten Realm cosmology?Are the Material Planes comprising the various campaign settings surrounded by a shared set of outer planes?How much would an average adventurer in the Forgotten Realms know about the Great Wheel Cosmology?
$begingroup$
I'm currently working on a homebrew world for a campaign of mine, which is currently on hold indefinitely, so there's no time pressure.
Overall design intent:
- I don't want my world to be a clone of the general world and lore of D&D (including the Forgotten Realms & the planar cosmology), with the only difference being the Material Plane.
- I'm not entirely content with the planar cosmology and pantheons in the Forgotten Realms and other existing settings (Eberron, etc).
Since I personally don't like the Astral Plane in particular, I'm thinking about outright removing it from my world.
However, the DMG states on page 43 on "The Planes":
At minimum, most D&D campaigns require these elements:
- [...]
- A way of getting from one plane to another
- A way for spells and monsters that use the Astral Plane and the Ethereal Plane to function
Obviously, I don't have to adhere to these guidelines. However, I'm aware that a number of spells, creatures, magical items and other things in 5e directly refer to the Astral Plane. Miniman's answer to the question What are all the ways a player can get to the Astral Plane? lists quite a few of these.
Naturally, spells (like Astral Projection), creatures (including playable races like Gith) or magical objects that refer to the Astral Plane simply don't exist (in unmodified form) in this campaign. I'd homebrew something for what happens when you put e.g. two Bags of Holding into each other.
I also know that the Astral Plane can be used as a means of travelling between different worlds, using the color pools located on it. I'm thinking about implementing a Yggdrasil-style World Tree in my world, which would assume this job.
Are there any other ramifications as a result of not having an Astral Plane in a 5e campaign setting?
dnd-5e homebrew planes world-building astral
asked yesterday
PixelMasterPixelMaster
12.2k347115
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I'm currently working on a homebrew world for a campaign of mine, which is currently on hold indefinitely, so there's no time pressure.
Overall design intent:
- I don't want my world to be a clone of the general world and lore of D&D (including the Forgotten Realms & the planar cosmology), with the only difference being the Material Plane.
- I'm not entirely content with the planar cosmology and pantheons in the Forgotten Realms and other existing settings (Eberron, etc).
Since I personally don't like the Astral Plane in particular, I'm thinking about outright removing it from my world.
However, the DMG states on page 43 on "The Planes":
At minimum, most D&D campaigns require these elements:
- [...]
- A way of getting from one plane to another
- A way for spells and monsters that use the Astral Plane and the Ethereal Plane to function
Obviously, I don't have to adhere to these guidelines. However, I'm aware that a number of spells, creatures, magical items and other things in 5e directly refer to the Astral Plane. Miniman's answer to the question What are all the ways a player can get to the Astral Plane? lists quite a few of these.
Naturally, spells (like Astral Projection), creatures (including playable races like Gith) or magical objects that refer to the Astral Plane simply don't exist (in unmodified form) in this campaign. I'd homebrew something for what happens when you put e.g. two Bags of Holding into each other.
I also know that the Astral Plane can be used as a means of travelling between different worlds, using the color pools located on it. I'm thinking about implementing a Yggdrasil-style World Tree in my world, which would assume this job.
Are there any other ramifications as a result of not having an Astral Plane in a 5e campaign setting?
dnd-5e homebrew planes world-building astral
asked yesterday
PixelMasterPixelMaster
12.2k347115
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
initally, tier 1 or 2. However, the world will serve as a setting for all tiers, so the PC's level shouldn't really be relevant.
$endgroup$
– PixelMaster
yesterday
3
$begingroup$
Just as an aside, the Astral Plane was a thing long before FR became a setting. It was in the AD&D 1e books a a thing. (Greyhawk default world if we view E Gygax as creator, and there were references to it in the OD&D supplements). Thus your reference to FR is irrelevant to the question. The astral plane touches most settings in one way or another. Suggest you edit your question to remove FR reference (it will make for a tighter/cleaner question). Also suggest you tighten your title: what are the mechanical effects of not having an Astral Plane in my setting. Up to you.
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
yesterday
7
$begingroup$
Title seems fine imho.
$endgroup$
– Quadratic Wizard
yesterday
1
$begingroup$
I'm deeply puzzled as to how this would encourage newer players to join in.
$endgroup$
– AJFaraday
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@AJFaraday the fact that newer players left and that I decided I want a less Forgotten-Realms-like world are unrelated. I suppose "I'm currently working on a homebrew world for a campaign of mine, which is currently indefinitely on hold" would suffice.
$endgroup$
– PixelMaster
8 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I'm currently working on a homebrew world for a campaign of mine, which is currently on hold indefinitely, so there's no time pressure.
Overall design intent:
- I don't want my world to be a clone of the general world and lore of D&D (including the Forgotten Realms & the planar cosmology), with the only difference being the Material Plane.
- I'm not entirely content with the planar cosmology and pantheons in the Forgotten Realms and other existing settings (Eberron, etc).
Since I personally don't like the Astral Plane in particular, I'm thinking about outright removing it from my world.
However, the DMG states on page 43 on "The Planes":
At minimum, most D&D campaigns require these elements:
- [...]
- A way of getting from one plane to another
- A way for spells and monsters that use the Astral Plane and the Ethereal Plane to function
Obviously, I don't have to adhere to these guidelines. However, I'm aware that a number of spells, creatures, magical items and other things in 5e directly refer to the Astral Plane. Miniman's answer to the question What are all the ways a player can get to the Astral Plane? lists quite a few of these.
Naturally, spells (like Astral Projection), creatures (including playable races like Gith) or magical objects that refer to the Astral Plane simply don't exist (in unmodified form) in this campaign. I'd homebrew something for what happens when you put e.g. two Bags of Holding into each other.
I also know that the Astral Plane can be used as a means of travelling between different worlds, using the color pools located on it. I'm thinking about implementing a Yggdrasil-style World Tree in my world, which would assume this job.
Are there any other ramifications as a result of not having an Astral Plane in a 5e campaign setting?
dnd-5e homebrew planes world-building astral
asked yesterday
PixelMasterPixelMaster
12.2k347115
$endgroup$
I'm currently working on a homebrew world for a campaign of mine, which is currently on hold indefinitely, so there's no time pressure.
Overall design intent:
- I don't want my world to be a clone of the general world and lore of D&D (including the Forgotten Realms & the planar cosmology), with the only difference being the Material Plane.
- I'm not entirely content with the planar cosmology and pantheons in the Forgotten Realms and other existing settings (Eberron, etc).
Since I personally don't like the Astral Plane in particular, I'm thinking about outright removing it from my world.
However, the DMG states on page 43 on "The Planes":
At minimum, most D&D campaigns require these elements:
- [...]
- A way of getting from one plane to another
- A way for spells and monsters that use the Astral Plane and the Ethereal Plane to function
Obviously, I don't have to adhere to these guidelines. However, I'm aware that a number of spells, creatures, magical items and other things in 5e directly refer to the Astral Plane. Miniman's answer to the question What are all the ways a player can get to the Astral Plane? lists quite a few of these.
Naturally, spells (like Astral Projection), creatures (including playable races like Gith) or magical objects that refer to the Astral Plane simply don't exist (in unmodified form) in this campaign. I'd homebrew something for what happens when you put e.g. two Bags of Holding into each other.
I also know that the Astral Plane can be used as a means of travelling between different worlds, using the color pools located on it. I'm thinking about implementing a Yggdrasil-style World Tree in my world, which would assume this job.
Are there any other ramifications as a result of not having an Astral Plane in a 5e campaign setting?
dnd-5e homebrew planes world-building astral
dnd-5e homebrew planes world-building astral
asked yesterday
PixelMasterPixelMaster
12.2k347115
asked yesterday
PixelMasterPixelMaster
12.2k347115
edited 8 hours ago
PixelMaster
asked yesterday
PixelMasterPixelMaster
12.2k347115
asked yesterday
PixelMasterPixelMaster
12.2k347115
asked yesterday
PixelMasterPixelMaster
12.2k347115
12.2k347115
1
$begingroup$
initally, tier 1 or 2. However, the world will serve as a setting for all tiers, so the PC's level shouldn't really be relevant.
$endgroup$
– PixelMaster
yesterday
3
$begingroup$
Just as an aside, the Astral Plane was a thing long before FR became a setting. It was in the AD&D 1e books a a thing. (Greyhawk default world if we view E Gygax as creator, and there were references to it in the OD&D supplements). Thus your reference to FR is irrelevant to the question. The astral plane touches most settings in one way or another. Suggest you edit your question to remove FR reference (it will make for a tighter/cleaner question). Also suggest you tighten your title: what are the mechanical effects of not having an Astral Plane in my setting. Up to you.
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
yesterday
7
$begingroup$
Title seems fine imho.
$endgroup$
– Quadratic Wizard
yesterday
1
$begingroup$
I'm deeply puzzled as to how this would encourage newer players to join in.
$endgroup$
– AJFaraday
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@AJFaraday the fact that newer players left and that I decided I want a less Forgotten-Realms-like world are unrelated. I suppose "I'm currently working on a homebrew world for a campaign of mine, which is currently indefinitely on hold" would suffice.
$endgroup$
– PixelMaster
8 hours ago
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
initally, tier 1 or 2. However, the world will serve as a setting for all tiers, so the PC's level shouldn't really be relevant.
$endgroup$
– PixelMaster
yesterday
3
$begingroup$
Just as an aside, the Astral Plane was a thing long before FR became a setting. It was in the AD&D 1e books a a thing. (Greyhawk default world if we view E Gygax as creator, and there were references to it in the OD&D supplements). Thus your reference to FR is irrelevant to the question. The astral plane touches most settings in one way or another. Suggest you edit your question to remove FR reference (it will make for a tighter/cleaner question). Also suggest you tighten your title: what are the mechanical effects of not having an Astral Plane in my setting. Up to you.
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
yesterday
7
$begingroup$
Title seems fine imho.
$endgroup$
– Quadratic Wizard
yesterday
1
$begingroup$
I'm deeply puzzled as to how this would encourage newer players to join in.
$endgroup$
– AJFaraday
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@AJFaraday the fact that newer players left and that I decided I want a less Forgotten-Realms-like world are unrelated. I suppose "I'm currently working on a homebrew world for a campaign of mine, which is currently indefinitely on hold" would suffice.
$endgroup$
– PixelMaster
8 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
initally, tier 1 or 2. However, the world will serve as a setting for all tiers, so the PC's level shouldn't really be relevant.
$endgroup$
– PixelMaster
yesterday
$begingroup$
initally, tier 1 or 2. However, the world will serve as a setting for all tiers, so the PC's level shouldn't really be relevant.
$endgroup$
– PixelMaster
yesterday
3
3
$begingroup$
Just as an aside, the Astral Plane was a thing long before FR became a setting. It was in the AD&D 1e books a a thing. (Greyhawk default world if we view E Gygax as creator, and there were references to it in the OD&D supplements). Thus your reference to FR is irrelevant to the question. The astral plane touches most settings in one way or another. Suggest you edit your question to remove FR reference (it will make for a tighter/cleaner question). Also suggest you tighten your title: what are the mechanical effects of not having an Astral Plane in my setting. Up to you.
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
yesterday
$begingroup$
Just as an aside, the Astral Plane was a thing long before FR became a setting. It was in the AD&D 1e books a a thing. (Greyhawk default world if we view E Gygax as creator, and there were references to it in the OD&D supplements). Thus your reference to FR is irrelevant to the question. The astral plane touches most settings in one way or another. Suggest you edit your question to remove FR reference (it will make for a tighter/cleaner question). Also suggest you tighten your title: what are the mechanical effects of not having an Astral Plane in my setting. Up to you.
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
yesterday
7
7
$begingroup$
Title seems fine imho.
$endgroup$
– Quadratic Wizard
yesterday
$begingroup$
Title seems fine imho.
$endgroup$
– Quadratic Wizard
yesterday
1
1
$begingroup$
I'm deeply puzzled as to how this would encourage newer players to join in.
$endgroup$
– AJFaraday
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
I'm deeply puzzled as to how this would encourage newer players to join in.
$endgroup$
– AJFaraday
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@AJFaraday the fact that newer players left and that I decided I want a less Forgotten-Realms-like world are unrelated. I suppose "I'm currently working on a homebrew world for a campaign of mine, which is currently indefinitely on hold" would suffice.
$endgroup$
– PixelMaster
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@AJFaraday the fact that newer players left and that I decided I want a less Forgotten-Realms-like world are unrelated. I suppose "I'm currently working on a homebrew world for a campaign of mine, which is currently indefinitely on hold" would suffice.
$endgroup$
– PixelMaster
8 hours ago
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Only the following elements in the core rulebooks use the Astral Plane
While it's impossible to list every possible Astral Plane interaction in D&D, the list of things in the three core rulebooks which rely on the Astral Plane is actually very limited.
The following spells, items or abilities allow travel to the Astral Plane, and will not have that function if the plane is removed:
- An 18th-level monk's Timeless Body ability
- A wild magic sorcerer's wild surge (2% chance)
- The 9th level spell astral projection
Prismatic spray and prismatic wall's violet layer (can also banish to the Ethereal or another plane)- The Robe of Stars
- A torn Bag of Devouring, Bag of Holding, Heward's Handy Haversack, or Portable Hole, or in some cases one of those placed inside the other
- Ether cyclones on the Ethereal Plane (5% chance)
The only other core rules elements which rely on that plane are as follows:
- Souls of slain individuals traditionally travel to their final resting place via the Astral Plane. You need to invent a new reasoning for how souls get to their afterlife or the realm of their deity.
- The Githyanki live on the Astral Plane. Without the Astral, they either don't exist or live somewhere else.
Forbiddance blocks planar travel, including specifically from the Astral Plane (as do certain other spells blocking planar travel in general, like antimagic sphere, Mordenkainen's private sanctum and imprisonment); obviously, if you have no Astral Plane, those spells don't do that any more, but of course they still block travel to/from other planes.
You don't need an Astral Plane
Fundamentally, you can completely ignore the Astral Plane. The only significant changes you need to make are explaining how souls and planar visitors get to the realms of the gods, explaining where stuff gets banished by certain spell effects that normally send things to the Astral, resolving very high-level abilities that normally allow astral projection so that they work some other way, and explaining what happens when you place one Bags of Holding inside another.
answered yesterday
Quadratic WizardQuadratic Wizard
30.6k3100164
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Upvoted, but minor quibble: you mentioned torn bags of holding, portable holes, etc., but not the portal to the astral plane that happens when you put one inside of another. I only mention it because you are clearly trying to be exhaustive.
$endgroup$
– Benjamin Olson
5 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
It's impossible to cover every scenario
You are trying to create a homebrew universe, which is awesome. I wouldn't worry too much about trying to cover all your bases but just deal with issues as they come up.
Building an entire universe is incredibly difficult, so don't worry about covering most cases (because you probably can't.) Worry more about building an engaging world and working on inconsistencies as they come up.
My own world and time management
I'm currently running a campaign in my own contained world that technically doesn't have those planes, either. I haven't even really considered the issues around that and I don't plan to unless something specific comes up. There is so much more to work on that creating contingencies for every possible thing is not a good use of my worldbuilding/storybuilding/encounterbuilding time.
It'll be a process
Authors can spend their lifetimes building and filling out their universe. As GMs, we often don't have that luxury - especially if our players are itching to get started.
What you need to do is fill in enough to get you started. Have your main story arc(s) outlined as well as your primary and motivating characters. But you're going to have to be flexible. Your players are going to change it, and you should let them and listen to them. Let them influence you and help build the world they are playing in. It'll likely lead to greater table satisfaction - and they're going to come up with ideas you probably wouldn't have :) And their actions can introduce new characters you hadn't thought of or new regions/worlds/planes interactions that you didn't consider.
edited yesterday
KorvinStarmast
82.6k20257444
answered yesterday
NautArchNautArch
61.2k8219406
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
I appreciate your advice, but I generally have a hard time with "just-roll-with-it-approaches". I don't know if it's because I tend to perfectionist or for some other reason, but I feel insecure and uncomfortable DMing a story without a decent, overarching theme/goal; in other words, when I start the campaign, I need to know the end goal / villain / etc. of the first "arc" (arc equals tiers of play here), and at least have a rough idea of possibilities for subsequent arcs. part 1/2 ...
$endgroup$
– PixelMaster
yesterday
$begingroup$
... part 2/2: Since I'm also fond of the general concept of planes, the second act is likely to involve extraplanar entities. Since I'd like to at least hint towards the second arc during the first, I need / want to have the planes figured out. tl;dr I want my story neatly integrated with the world, and don't want to run into inconsistencies due to world elements not having been thought about for too long.
$endgroup$
– PixelMaster
yesterday
1
$begingroup$
@PixelMaster That's kind of a different question - and I'm sure we can help with that as well. Unfortunately, I do think that what your'e getting at may be idea generation needs and better suited to a forum (or maybe to worldbuilding SE). FIguring out how to make your world work with your story is going to be very much opinion-based and idea generation.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
yesterday
$begingroup$
@PixelMaster But you can try and present a problem of story vs plane/world and see if it's possible to answer here.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
yesterday
1
$begingroup$
I don't feel like I need to ask a question about that. I simply desire a solid foundation (in terms of world lore) to work with, but that's just me, it's not D&D-exclusive. Furthermore, I enjoy building a world, and I don't want to have to rush it later because the ongoing sessions demand it.
$endgroup$
– PixelMaster
yesterday
|
show 3 more comments
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2 Answers
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2 Answers
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$begingroup$
Only the following elements in the core rulebooks use the Astral Plane
While it's impossible to list every possible Astral Plane interaction in D&D, the list of things in the three core rulebooks which rely on the Astral Plane is actually very limited.
The following spells, items or abilities allow travel to the Astral Plane, and will not have that function if the plane is removed:
- An 18th-level monk's Timeless Body ability
- A wild magic sorcerer's wild surge (2% chance)
- The 9th level spell astral projection
Prismatic spray and prismatic wall's violet layer (can also banish to the Ethereal or another plane)- The Robe of Stars
- A torn Bag of Devouring, Bag of Holding, Heward's Handy Haversack, or Portable Hole, or in some cases one of those placed inside the other
- Ether cyclones on the Ethereal Plane (5% chance)
The only other core rules elements which rely on that plane are as follows:
- Souls of slain individuals traditionally travel to their final resting place via the Astral Plane. You need to invent a new reasoning for how souls get to their afterlife or the realm of their deity.
- The Githyanki live on the Astral Plane. Without the Astral, they either don't exist or live somewhere else.
Forbiddance blocks planar travel, including specifically from the Astral Plane (as do certain other spells blocking planar travel in general, like antimagic sphere, Mordenkainen's private sanctum and imprisonment); obviously, if you have no Astral Plane, those spells don't do that any more, but of course they still block travel to/from other planes.
You don't need an Astral Plane
Fundamentally, you can completely ignore the Astral Plane. The only significant changes you need to make are explaining how souls and planar visitors get to the realms of the gods, explaining where stuff gets banished by certain spell effects that normally send things to the Astral, resolving very high-level abilities that normally allow astral projection so that they work some other way, and explaining what happens when you place one Bags of Holding inside another.
answered yesterday
Quadratic WizardQuadratic Wizard
30.6k3100164
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Upvoted, but minor quibble: you mentioned torn bags of holding, portable holes, etc., but not the portal to the astral plane that happens when you put one inside of another. I only mention it because you are clearly trying to be exhaustive.
$endgroup$
– Benjamin Olson
5 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Only the following elements in the core rulebooks use the Astral Plane
While it's impossible to list every possible Astral Plane interaction in D&D, the list of things in the three core rulebooks which rely on the Astral Plane is actually very limited.
The following spells, items or abilities allow travel to the Astral Plane, and will not have that function if the plane is removed:
- An 18th-level monk's Timeless Body ability
- A wild magic sorcerer's wild surge (2% chance)
- The 9th level spell astral projection
Prismatic spray and prismatic wall's violet layer (can also banish to the Ethereal or another plane)- The Robe of Stars
- A torn Bag of Devouring, Bag of Holding, Heward's Handy Haversack, or Portable Hole, or in some cases one of those placed inside the other
- Ether cyclones on the Ethereal Plane (5% chance)
The only other core rules elements which rely on that plane are as follows:
- Souls of slain individuals traditionally travel to their final resting place via the Astral Plane. You need to invent a new reasoning for how souls get to their afterlife or the realm of their deity.
- The Githyanki live on the Astral Plane. Without the Astral, they either don't exist or live somewhere else.
Forbiddance blocks planar travel, including specifically from the Astral Plane (as do certain other spells blocking planar travel in general, like antimagic sphere, Mordenkainen's private sanctum and imprisonment); obviously, if you have no Astral Plane, those spells don't do that any more, but of course they still block travel to/from other planes.
You don't need an Astral Plane
Fundamentally, you can completely ignore the Astral Plane. The only significant changes you need to make are explaining how souls and planar visitors get to the realms of the gods, explaining where stuff gets banished by certain spell effects that normally send things to the Astral, resolving very high-level abilities that normally allow astral projection so that they work some other way, and explaining what happens when you place one Bags of Holding inside another.
answered yesterday
Quadratic WizardQuadratic Wizard
30.6k3100164
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
Upvoted, but minor quibble: you mentioned torn bags of holding, portable holes, etc., but not the portal to the astral plane that happens when you put one inside of another. I only mention it because you are clearly trying to be exhaustive.
$endgroup$
– Benjamin Olson
5 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Only the following elements in the core rulebooks use the Astral Plane
While it's impossible to list every possible Astral Plane interaction in D&D, the list of things in the three core rulebooks which rely on the Astral Plane is actually very limited.
The following spells, items or abilities allow travel to the Astral Plane, and will not have that function if the plane is removed:
- An 18th-level monk's Timeless Body ability
- A wild magic sorcerer's wild surge (2% chance)
- The 9th level spell astral projection
Prismatic spray and prismatic wall's violet layer (can also banish to the Ethereal or another plane)- The Robe of Stars
- A torn Bag of Devouring, Bag of Holding, Heward's Handy Haversack, or Portable Hole, or in some cases one of those placed inside the other
- Ether cyclones on the Ethereal Plane (5% chance)
The only other core rules elements which rely on that plane are as follows:
- Souls of slain individuals traditionally travel to their final resting place via the Astral Plane. You need to invent a new reasoning for how souls get to their afterlife or the realm of their deity.
- The Githyanki live on the Astral Plane. Without the Astral, they either don't exist or live somewhere else.
Forbiddance blocks planar travel, including specifically from the Astral Plane (as do certain other spells blocking planar travel in general, like antimagic sphere, Mordenkainen's private sanctum and imprisonment); obviously, if you have no Astral Plane, those spells don't do that any more, but of course they still block travel to/from other planes.
You don't need an Astral Plane
Fundamentally, you can completely ignore the Astral Plane. The only significant changes you need to make are explaining how souls and planar visitors get to the realms of the gods, explaining where stuff gets banished by certain spell effects that normally send things to the Astral, resolving very high-level abilities that normally allow astral projection so that they work some other way, and explaining what happens when you place one Bags of Holding inside another.
answered yesterday
Quadratic WizardQuadratic Wizard
30.6k3100164
$endgroup$
Only the following elements in the core rulebooks use the Astral Plane
While it's impossible to list every possible Astral Plane interaction in D&D, the list of things in the three core rulebooks which rely on the Astral Plane is actually very limited.
The following spells, items or abilities allow travel to the Astral Plane, and will not have that function if the plane is removed:
- An 18th-level monk's Timeless Body ability
- A wild magic sorcerer's wild surge (2% chance)
- The 9th level spell astral projection
Prismatic spray and prismatic wall's violet layer (can also banish to the Ethereal or another plane)- The Robe of Stars
- A torn Bag of Devouring, Bag of Holding, Heward's Handy Haversack, or Portable Hole, or in some cases one of those placed inside the other
- Ether cyclones on the Ethereal Plane (5% chance)
The only other core rules elements which rely on that plane are as follows:
- Souls of slain individuals traditionally travel to their final resting place via the Astral Plane. You need to invent a new reasoning for how souls get to their afterlife or the realm of their deity.
- The Githyanki live on the Astral Plane. Without the Astral, they either don't exist or live somewhere else.
Forbiddance blocks planar travel, including specifically from the Astral Plane (as do certain other spells blocking planar travel in general, like antimagic sphere, Mordenkainen's private sanctum and imprisonment); obviously, if you have no Astral Plane, those spells don't do that any more, but of course they still block travel to/from other planes.
You don't need an Astral Plane
Fundamentally, you can completely ignore the Astral Plane. The only significant changes you need to make are explaining how souls and planar visitors get to the realms of the gods, explaining where stuff gets banished by certain spell effects that normally send things to the Astral, resolving very high-level abilities that normally allow astral projection so that they work some other way, and explaining what happens when you place one Bags of Holding inside another.
answered yesterday
Quadratic WizardQuadratic Wizard
30.6k3100164
edited 2 hours ago
answered yesterday
Quadratic WizardQuadratic Wizard
30.6k3100164
answered yesterday
Quadratic WizardQuadratic Wizard
30.6k3100164
answered yesterday
Quadratic WizardQuadratic Wizard
30.6k3100164
30.6k3100164
1
$begingroup$
Upvoted, but minor quibble: you mentioned torn bags of holding, portable holes, etc., but not the portal to the astral plane that happens when you put one inside of another. I only mention it because you are clearly trying to be exhaustive.
$endgroup$
– Benjamin Olson
5 hours ago
add a comment |
1
$begingroup$
Upvoted, but minor quibble: you mentioned torn bags of holding, portable holes, etc., but not the portal to the astral plane that happens when you put one inside of another. I only mention it because you are clearly trying to be exhaustive.
$endgroup$
– Benjamin Olson
5 hours ago
1
1
$begingroup$
Upvoted, but minor quibble: you mentioned torn bags of holding, portable holes, etc., but not the portal to the astral plane that happens when you put one inside of another. I only mention it because you are clearly trying to be exhaustive.
$endgroup$
– Benjamin Olson
5 hours ago
$begingroup$
Upvoted, but minor quibble: you mentioned torn bags of holding, portable holes, etc., but not the portal to the astral plane that happens when you put one inside of another. I only mention it because you are clearly trying to be exhaustive.
$endgroup$
– Benjamin Olson
5 hours ago
add a comment |
$begingroup$
It's impossible to cover every scenario
You are trying to create a homebrew universe, which is awesome. I wouldn't worry too much about trying to cover all your bases but just deal with issues as they come up.
Building an entire universe is incredibly difficult, so don't worry about covering most cases (because you probably can't.) Worry more about building an engaging world and working on inconsistencies as they come up.
My own world and time management
I'm currently running a campaign in my own contained world that technically doesn't have those planes, either. I haven't even really considered the issues around that and I don't plan to unless something specific comes up. There is so much more to work on that creating contingencies for every possible thing is not a good use of my worldbuilding/storybuilding/encounterbuilding time.
It'll be a process
Authors can spend their lifetimes building and filling out their universe. As GMs, we often don't have that luxury - especially if our players are itching to get started.
What you need to do is fill in enough to get you started. Have your main story arc(s) outlined as well as your primary and motivating characters. But you're going to have to be flexible. Your players are going to change it, and you should let them and listen to them. Let them influence you and help build the world they are playing in. It'll likely lead to greater table satisfaction - and they're going to come up with ideas you probably wouldn't have :) And their actions can introduce new characters you hadn't thought of or new regions/worlds/planes interactions that you didn't consider.
edited yesterday
KorvinStarmast
82.6k20257444
answered yesterday
NautArchNautArch
61.2k8219406
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
I appreciate your advice, but I generally have a hard time with "just-roll-with-it-approaches". I don't know if it's because I tend to perfectionist or for some other reason, but I feel insecure and uncomfortable DMing a story without a decent, overarching theme/goal; in other words, when I start the campaign, I need to know the end goal / villain / etc. of the first "arc" (arc equals tiers of play here), and at least have a rough idea of possibilities for subsequent arcs. part 1/2 ...
$endgroup$
– PixelMaster
yesterday
$begingroup$
... part 2/2: Since I'm also fond of the general concept of planes, the second act is likely to involve extraplanar entities. Since I'd like to at least hint towards the second arc during the first, I need / want to have the planes figured out. tl;dr I want my story neatly integrated with the world, and don't want to run into inconsistencies due to world elements not having been thought about for too long.
$endgroup$
– PixelMaster
yesterday
1
$begingroup$
@PixelMaster That's kind of a different question - and I'm sure we can help with that as well. Unfortunately, I do think that what your'e getting at may be idea generation needs and better suited to a forum (or maybe to worldbuilding SE). FIguring out how to make your world work with your story is going to be very much opinion-based and idea generation.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
yesterday
$begingroup$
@PixelMaster But you can try and present a problem of story vs plane/world and see if it's possible to answer here.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
yesterday
1
$begingroup$
I don't feel like I need to ask a question about that. I simply desire a solid foundation (in terms of world lore) to work with, but that's just me, it's not D&D-exclusive. Furthermore, I enjoy building a world, and I don't want to have to rush it later because the ongoing sessions demand it.
$endgroup$
– PixelMaster
yesterday
|
show 3 more comments
$begingroup$
It's impossible to cover every scenario
You are trying to create a homebrew universe, which is awesome. I wouldn't worry too much about trying to cover all your bases but just deal with issues as they come up.
Building an entire universe is incredibly difficult, so don't worry about covering most cases (because you probably can't.) Worry more about building an engaging world and working on inconsistencies as they come up.
My own world and time management
I'm currently running a campaign in my own contained world that technically doesn't have those planes, either. I haven't even really considered the issues around that and I don't plan to unless something specific comes up. There is so much more to work on that creating contingencies for every possible thing is not a good use of my worldbuilding/storybuilding/encounterbuilding time.
It'll be a process
Authors can spend their lifetimes building and filling out their universe. As GMs, we often don't have that luxury - especially if our players are itching to get started.
What you need to do is fill in enough to get you started. Have your main story arc(s) outlined as well as your primary and motivating characters. But you're going to have to be flexible. Your players are going to change it, and you should let them and listen to them. Let them influence you and help build the world they are playing in. It'll likely lead to greater table satisfaction - and they're going to come up with ideas you probably wouldn't have :) And their actions can introduce new characters you hadn't thought of or new regions/worlds/planes interactions that you didn't consider.
edited yesterday
KorvinStarmast
82.6k20257444
answered yesterday
NautArchNautArch
61.2k8219406
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
I appreciate your advice, but I generally have a hard time with "just-roll-with-it-approaches". I don't know if it's because I tend to perfectionist or for some other reason, but I feel insecure and uncomfortable DMing a story without a decent, overarching theme/goal; in other words, when I start the campaign, I need to know the end goal / villain / etc. of the first "arc" (arc equals tiers of play here), and at least have a rough idea of possibilities for subsequent arcs. part 1/2 ...
$endgroup$
– PixelMaster
yesterday
$begingroup$
... part 2/2: Since I'm also fond of the general concept of planes, the second act is likely to involve extraplanar entities. Since I'd like to at least hint towards the second arc during the first, I need / want to have the planes figured out. tl;dr I want my story neatly integrated with the world, and don't want to run into inconsistencies due to world elements not having been thought about for too long.
$endgroup$
– PixelMaster
yesterday
1
$begingroup$
@PixelMaster That's kind of a different question - and I'm sure we can help with that as well. Unfortunately, I do think that what your'e getting at may be idea generation needs and better suited to a forum (or maybe to worldbuilding SE). FIguring out how to make your world work with your story is going to be very much opinion-based and idea generation.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
yesterday
$begingroup$
@PixelMaster But you can try and present a problem of story vs plane/world and see if it's possible to answer here.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
yesterday
1
$begingroup$
I don't feel like I need to ask a question about that. I simply desire a solid foundation (in terms of world lore) to work with, but that's just me, it's not D&D-exclusive. Furthermore, I enjoy building a world, and I don't want to have to rush it later because the ongoing sessions demand it.
$endgroup$
– PixelMaster
yesterday
|
show 3 more comments
$begingroup$
It's impossible to cover every scenario
You are trying to create a homebrew universe, which is awesome. I wouldn't worry too much about trying to cover all your bases but just deal with issues as they come up.
Building an entire universe is incredibly difficult, so don't worry about covering most cases (because you probably can't.) Worry more about building an engaging world and working on inconsistencies as they come up.
My own world and time management
I'm currently running a campaign in my own contained world that technically doesn't have those planes, either. I haven't even really considered the issues around that and I don't plan to unless something specific comes up. There is so much more to work on that creating contingencies for every possible thing is not a good use of my worldbuilding/storybuilding/encounterbuilding time.
It'll be a process
Authors can spend their lifetimes building and filling out their universe. As GMs, we often don't have that luxury - especially if our players are itching to get started.
What you need to do is fill in enough to get you started. Have your main story arc(s) outlined as well as your primary and motivating characters. But you're going to have to be flexible. Your players are going to change it, and you should let them and listen to them. Let them influence you and help build the world they are playing in. It'll likely lead to greater table satisfaction - and they're going to come up with ideas you probably wouldn't have :) And their actions can introduce new characters you hadn't thought of or new regions/worlds/planes interactions that you didn't consider.
edited yesterday
KorvinStarmast
82.6k20257444
answered yesterday
NautArchNautArch
61.2k8219406
$endgroup$
It's impossible to cover every scenario
You are trying to create a homebrew universe, which is awesome. I wouldn't worry too much about trying to cover all your bases but just deal with issues as they come up.
Building an entire universe is incredibly difficult, so don't worry about covering most cases (because you probably can't.) Worry more about building an engaging world and working on inconsistencies as they come up.
My own world and time management
I'm currently running a campaign in my own contained world that technically doesn't have those planes, either. I haven't even really considered the issues around that and I don't plan to unless something specific comes up. There is so much more to work on that creating contingencies for every possible thing is not a good use of my worldbuilding/storybuilding/encounterbuilding time.
It'll be a process
Authors can spend their lifetimes building and filling out their universe. As GMs, we often don't have that luxury - especially if our players are itching to get started.
What you need to do is fill in enough to get you started. Have your main story arc(s) outlined as well as your primary and motivating characters. But you're going to have to be flexible. Your players are going to change it, and you should let them and listen to them. Let them influence you and help build the world they are playing in. It'll likely lead to greater table satisfaction - and they're going to come up with ideas you probably wouldn't have :) And their actions can introduce new characters you hadn't thought of or new regions/worlds/planes interactions that you didn't consider.
edited yesterday
KorvinStarmast
82.6k20257444
answered yesterday
NautArchNautArch
61.2k8219406
edited yesterday
KorvinStarmast
82.6k20257444
edited yesterday
KorvinStarmast
82.6k20257444
edited yesterday
KorvinStarmast
82.6k20257444
82.6k20257444
answered yesterday
NautArchNautArch
61.2k8219406
answered yesterday
NautArchNautArch
61.2k8219406
answered yesterday
NautArchNautArch
61.2k8219406
61.2k8219406
$begingroup$
I appreciate your advice, but I generally have a hard time with "just-roll-with-it-approaches". I don't know if it's because I tend to perfectionist or for some other reason, but I feel insecure and uncomfortable DMing a story without a decent, overarching theme/goal; in other words, when I start the campaign, I need to know the end goal / villain / etc. of the first "arc" (arc equals tiers of play here), and at least have a rough idea of possibilities for subsequent arcs. part 1/2 ...
$endgroup$
– PixelMaster
yesterday
$begingroup$
... part 2/2: Since I'm also fond of the general concept of planes, the second act is likely to involve extraplanar entities. Since I'd like to at least hint towards the second arc during the first, I need / want to have the planes figured out. tl;dr I want my story neatly integrated with the world, and don't want to run into inconsistencies due to world elements not having been thought about for too long.
$endgroup$
– PixelMaster
yesterday
1
$begingroup$
@PixelMaster That's kind of a different question - and I'm sure we can help with that as well. Unfortunately, I do think that what your'e getting at may be idea generation needs and better suited to a forum (or maybe to worldbuilding SE). FIguring out how to make your world work with your story is going to be very much opinion-based and idea generation.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
yesterday
$begingroup$
@PixelMaster But you can try and present a problem of story vs plane/world and see if it's possible to answer here.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
yesterday
1
$begingroup$
I don't feel like I need to ask a question about that. I simply desire a solid foundation (in terms of world lore) to work with, but that's just me, it's not D&D-exclusive. Furthermore, I enjoy building a world, and I don't want to have to rush it later because the ongoing sessions demand it.
$endgroup$
– PixelMaster
yesterday
|
show 3 more comments
$begingroup$
I appreciate your advice, but I generally have a hard time with "just-roll-with-it-approaches". I don't know if it's because I tend to perfectionist or for some other reason, but I feel insecure and uncomfortable DMing a story without a decent, overarching theme/goal; in other words, when I start the campaign, I need to know the end goal / villain / etc. of the first "arc" (arc equals tiers of play here), and at least have a rough idea of possibilities for subsequent arcs. part 1/2 ...
$endgroup$
– PixelMaster
yesterday
$begingroup$
... part 2/2: Since I'm also fond of the general concept of planes, the second act is likely to involve extraplanar entities. Since I'd like to at least hint towards the second arc during the first, I need / want to have the planes figured out. tl;dr I want my story neatly integrated with the world, and don't want to run into inconsistencies due to world elements not having been thought about for too long.
$endgroup$
– PixelMaster
yesterday
1
$begingroup$
@PixelMaster That's kind of a different question - and I'm sure we can help with that as well. Unfortunately, I do think that what your'e getting at may be idea generation needs and better suited to a forum (or maybe to worldbuilding SE). FIguring out how to make your world work with your story is going to be very much opinion-based and idea generation.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
yesterday
$begingroup$
@PixelMaster But you can try and present a problem of story vs plane/world and see if it's possible to answer here.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
yesterday
1
$begingroup$
I don't feel like I need to ask a question about that. I simply desire a solid foundation (in terms of world lore) to work with, but that's just me, it's not D&D-exclusive. Furthermore, I enjoy building a world, and I don't want to have to rush it later because the ongoing sessions demand it.
$endgroup$
– PixelMaster
yesterday
$begingroup$
I appreciate your advice, but I generally have a hard time with "just-roll-with-it-approaches". I don't know if it's because I tend to perfectionist or for some other reason, but I feel insecure and uncomfortable DMing a story without a decent, overarching theme/goal; in other words, when I start the campaign, I need to know the end goal / villain / etc. of the first "arc" (arc equals tiers of play here), and at least have a rough idea of possibilities for subsequent arcs. part 1/2 ...
$endgroup$
– PixelMaster
yesterday
$begingroup$
I appreciate your advice, but I generally have a hard time with "just-roll-with-it-approaches". I don't know if it's because I tend to perfectionist or for some other reason, but I feel insecure and uncomfortable DMing a story without a decent, overarching theme/goal; in other words, when I start the campaign, I need to know the end goal / villain / etc. of the first "arc" (arc equals tiers of play here), and at least have a rough idea of possibilities for subsequent arcs. part 1/2 ...
$endgroup$
– PixelMaster
yesterday
$begingroup$
... part 2/2: Since I'm also fond of the general concept of planes, the second act is likely to involve extraplanar entities. Since I'd like to at least hint towards the second arc during the first, I need / want to have the planes figured out. tl;dr I want my story neatly integrated with the world, and don't want to run into inconsistencies due to world elements not having been thought about for too long.
$endgroup$
– PixelMaster
yesterday
$begingroup$
... part 2/2: Since I'm also fond of the general concept of planes, the second act is likely to involve extraplanar entities. Since I'd like to at least hint towards the second arc during the first, I need / want to have the planes figured out. tl;dr I want my story neatly integrated with the world, and don't want to run into inconsistencies due to world elements not having been thought about for too long.
$endgroup$
– PixelMaster
yesterday
1
1
$begingroup$
@PixelMaster That's kind of a different question - and I'm sure we can help with that as well. Unfortunately, I do think that what your'e getting at may be idea generation needs and better suited to a forum (or maybe to worldbuilding SE). FIguring out how to make your world work with your story is going to be very much opinion-based and idea generation.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
yesterday
$begingroup$
@PixelMaster That's kind of a different question - and I'm sure we can help with that as well. Unfortunately, I do think that what your'e getting at may be idea generation needs and better suited to a forum (or maybe to worldbuilding SE). FIguring out how to make your world work with your story is going to be very much opinion-based and idea generation.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
yesterday
$begingroup$
@PixelMaster But you can try and present a problem of story vs plane/world and see if it's possible to answer here.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
yesterday
$begingroup$
@PixelMaster But you can try and present a problem of story vs plane/world and see if it's possible to answer here.
$endgroup$
– NautArch
yesterday
1
1
$begingroup$
I don't feel like I need to ask a question about that. I simply desire a solid foundation (in terms of world lore) to work with, but that's just me, it's not D&D-exclusive. Furthermore, I enjoy building a world, and I don't want to have to rush it later because the ongoing sessions demand it.
$endgroup$
– PixelMaster
yesterday
$begingroup$
I don't feel like I need to ask a question about that. I simply desire a solid foundation (in terms of world lore) to work with, but that's just me, it's not D&D-exclusive. Furthermore, I enjoy building a world, and I don't want to have to rush it later because the ongoing sessions demand it.
$endgroup$
– PixelMaster
yesterday
|
show 3 more comments
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1
$begingroup$
initally, tier 1 or 2. However, the world will serve as a setting for all tiers, so the PC's level shouldn't really be relevant.
$endgroup$
– PixelMaster
yesterday
3
$begingroup$
Just as an aside, the Astral Plane was a thing long before FR became a setting. It was in the AD&D 1e books a a thing. (Greyhawk default world if we view E Gygax as creator, and there were references to it in the OD&D supplements). Thus your reference to FR is irrelevant to the question. The astral plane touches most settings in one way or another. Suggest you edit your question to remove FR reference (it will make for a tighter/cleaner question). Also suggest you tighten your title: what are the mechanical effects of not having an Astral Plane in my setting. Up to you.
$endgroup$
– KorvinStarmast
yesterday
7
$begingroup$
Title seems fine imho.
$endgroup$
– Quadratic Wizard
yesterday
1
$begingroup$
I'm deeply puzzled as to how this would encourage newer players to join in.
$endgroup$
– AJFaraday
8 hours ago
$begingroup$
@AJFaraday the fact that newer players left and that I decided I want a less Forgotten-Realms-like world are unrelated. I suppose "I'm currently working on a homebrew world for a campaign of mine, which is currently indefinitely on hold" would suffice.
$endgroup$
– PixelMaster
8 hours ago